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Prime Sportscar

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by HPrimeAdvanced, Sep 21, 2017.

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  1. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    Bin there, done that! Droning along at the enforced speed limit of 100 km/hr in a car capable of going three times that ("slightly" modified 1993 Mazda RX-7). Fun on a very few roads, very boring on all others. My radar detector got lots of "exercise" though, every cop I passed was checking my speed! Of course the car was "I'M OVER HERE OFFICER yellow". ;)

    I prefer efficient cars that are more "stealthy" now.
     
    #21 David Beale, Sep 25, 2017
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  2. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    It's an appearance and suspension package, FWIW, with a few interior changes as well (looks like different seats, steering wheel, and a tach in the MID).

    Most of the attitude that I've seen towards it on automotive enthusiast sites is that it might be OK for Japan, where there's less opportunity to go at high speeds or accelerate quickly, but it wouldn't be well received outside of Japan unless a model with additional power were released.

    I'm actually of the opinion that Toyota might get some sales if they made a 2.5 liter sport version of the Liftback... 208 hp in that would be respectable against the benchmark hot hatch, the Golf GTI (although it probably wouldn't be considered better than the Fiesta ST, which is smaller with similar power).
     
    #22 bhtooefr, Sep 25, 2017
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  3. mercat68

    mercat68 Active Member

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    #23 mercat68, Sep 25, 2017
  4. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    Don't mean to sound negative, but a 3300 pound four door sedan does not become a sports car with the addition of minor cosmetic changes.
     
    #24 Washingtonian, Sep 25, 2017
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  5. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    How totally on the money you are!! Unfortunately, it sounds like that 3300 lb Toyota Faux Sportscar might be a cynical GM, Dodge, or Ford-like attempt to quell performance cravers needs.
    Tacking on a bunch of silly body parts, badges, pin-striping, steering wheels, slippery steel pedals ain't gonna make my great granma's Studebaker a rocketship!!! Honda used to offer very interesting, limited-run cars like their Acura Integra Type R, and Honda Insight 3-cylinder Insight Hybrid Coupe. This is the kind of out-of-the-box thinking we need to produce Toyota's Prime Superleggera Sportscar!! Mr. Akio Toyoda, we American Car Enthusiasts are waiting with our wallets open!! Bring it on, you huge corporate behemoth; let's see what you can do!!

    .
     
    #25 HPrimeAdvanced, Sep 25, 2017
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    There is the Civic Type R ;)
     
    #26 Tideland Prius, Sep 25, 2017
  7. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    I deliberately left it out; it's more of an abomination with some 300+ horsepower in a front-wheel drive car. That's just plain stupid! If you've got that much horsepower, it's either got to be rear wheel drive or all wheel drive; just ask the masters of horsepower, the Italians or even those krauts!! Besides people like Lotus (although not that reliable) and Alfa Romeo know how to balance horses with a lightweight superb chassis to create truly splendid automobiles. Hey I'm not asking for a revolution here, just extrapolate the technology currently available and blend it into an exciting, environmentally responsible, economical, and fun to drive car! My Superleggera Prime carbon fiber Sports Coupe would be a winner. BTW, don't forget the French, in particular with their engineering marvel, the Citroen DS 21 Pallas, etc. These Royals came up with the truly wondrous hydropneumatic suspension (also used by Rolls Royce), not to mention radial tires, and front wheel drive!

    .
     
    #27 HPrimeAdvanced, Sep 25, 2017
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  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I thought there was a 300hp FWD Alfa about a decade ago but the closest I can find is the 147 GTA with just under 250hp.

    (Also, the new Camry V6 has 301hp lol)
     
    #28 Tideland Prius, Sep 25, 2017
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  9. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    The Italian's (I think it was Alfa) will tell you that FWD is best maximized to 200hp, which is what my 2400 lb Acura Type R, was at. What a rocket that was; 8700rpm redline!! Louder than a screaming banshee, but a blast to drive!
    The 4-cylinder GTA's racing back in the TransAm days were rear wheel drive. I think the 147 you mention is after Fiat took over, and there all bets are off. Just my opinion, but anything coming out after Fiat takeover, is a turd!! (I'm being very polite and restrained here!!)



    .
     
    #29 HPrimeAdvanced, Sep 25, 2017
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  10. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Mind you, modern suspension designs can avoid the torque steer issues that 300 hp in a FWD car can cause, and smarter differentials can actually get the power down...
     
    #30 bhtooefr, Sep 25, 2017
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  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I was thinking a limited slip diff and traction control can help reign in the torque, at least from tip off.
     
    #31 Tideland Prius, Sep 26, 2017
  12. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    Yeah but it's so unbalanced!! All that upfront weight; not to be too crude here (censor me if you must!), it's like a 72 23 36 Sally Rand; with a little help, it can stand up!! (Google it, kids!).

    .
     
    #32 HPrimeAdvanced, Sep 26, 2017
  13. KennyGS

    KennyGS Senior Member

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    My old 2007 Si, at over 200 hp was a fun car, but when pushed to its limits demonstrated massive amounts of under-steer. This is unavoidable with front-drive cars. I prefer a rwd or awd when it comes to a high performance car.
     
    #33 KennyGS, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  14. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    It's 61.8/38.2, for what it's worth, only slightly worse than the AWD hot hatches, which all claim to be 60/40.
     
    #34 bhtooefr, Sep 26, 2017
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  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Isn't the Gen 3 Prius 61/39? Didn't realise how front-heavy those hot hatches were. I guess you would want more weight over the drive wheels (and just dial in the understeer as needed).
     
    #35 Tideland Prius, Sep 26, 2017
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  16. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    My rear drive 1987 Alfa Romeo Milano Verde was 50/50 weight distribution with rear 5 spd transaxle, inboard rear discs, independent DeDion rear supension, 145mph, 30-35mpg. Refined super engineered, but using inferior German and Fiat components. If that car had been built in Japan with Toyota components, it would probably still be in production. It sounded like the Bullitt Mustang, with a deep V6 growl. What a truly advanced and fun car that was!

    .
     
    #36 HPrimeAdvanced, Sep 26, 2017
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  17. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    The 2010 that Edmunds tested was 60.2/39.8. The battery helps a lot, although the P410 hurts again.

    But, yeah, hot hatches tend to be in the 60-65% front weight distribution ballpark - all they are is a normal FWD hatch with more engine (well, OK, the Impreza line is a normal AWD hatch with more engine, but the FWD Impreza variants that we don't get are nasty for weight distribution, with their engine layout). Suspension setup helps some here - the school of thought for hot hatch tuning has always been to slap a big rear sway bar on, and use the throttle to catch oversteer - it's a fundamentally different driving style than what's needed for a RWD car, and it's not kind to tires, but it's effective. (Note that the sport of touring cars has gone almost entirely to FWD cars despite all of that.)

    Or, with the AWD ones, when you start understeering under power, the AWD system will send some power to the back to neutralize it (or, nowadays, will just send it to the back expecting the understeer).
     
    #37 bhtooefr, Sep 27, 2017
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  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Where were you when I was still playing Gran Turismo? lol. Pretty sure I was tuning those FWD cars incorrectly. :oops:

    I thought a DeDion was semi-independent.
     
    #38 Tideland Prius, Sep 27, 2017
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  19. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    It is! And it rocks!

    .
     
    #39 HPrimeAdvanced, Sep 27, 2017
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    My only experience with a DeDion is a fortwo lol.
     
    #40 Tideland Prius, Sep 27, 2017
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