Prime destined to be doa?

I haven't tried going 25 mph without stopping, but have done 40 mph but a turn or two and a red light or two worth of needless deceleration/acceleration. Normal driving I'd say I can get 10 miles

 

40 would cut it quite a bit i think, but i think 11 is a reasonable average if you're not all highway.

 

The guess-o-meter showed 10.6 when I started out on some errands the other day. Got 11.3 before it switched to HV. That was a mix of 55 mph stretches, hills and a few stops as well as lots of stop signs and red lights.


Unsupervised!

 

Like what Tesla has on their site; a max range based upon a max speed, outside temperature, and whether the AC is on.
Even a basic chart of fuel consumption at various steady speeds, as Gerdes does in reviews, would be nice.

 

simple dyno tests could be run by epa and put on sticker.

 

Well how many people will drive a BEV with a destination charger in mind? From most of the stats I've seen 81% of BEV drivers charge at home. EV range makes sense for PHEVs but wouldn't something like a working radius be a better description for BEVs? When it comes to see if a BEV will fit my lifestyle, I've always cut the range to about 40% in my head just because I've known I'll recharge at home so the total range is really a round trip. So the upcoming Ioniq BEV is really about 42 miles to whatever destination(s) and then back.


Unsupervised!

 

i figure 60% as a worst case scenario. so a 100 mile leaf won't take me to lunch with my dad every wednesday. i feel i need 150 miles to get me the 100. i don't want to get home on fumes either.
the problem is, i only need 20 or 30 the other 6 days.

 

The shortcoming with most EV promoters is they aren't able to focus on COST, yet... which forces them to just accept current PRICE with heavy dependency on tax-credits instead.

COST determines successful sustainable sales that actually delivers a profit. That's vital and certainly not taken seriously, yet.

Take a look at the COST numbers. Best case scenario is $145 per kWh. Most realistic efficiency is 4 miles per kWh. That works out to $3,625 for the cells delivering 100 of range, with no longevity buffer. Accounting for a usable capacity of 80% means adding another $900 to the COST. There's also the need to add COST for the casing, connectors, controllers, and cooling. Who knows what that comes to; lets say roughly $500.

In other words, the COST of 100 miles is somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000.

That COST makes the 200-mile EV unrealistic for reaching those without disposable income available. The 100-mile EV has a market. Those without the long-distance requirement would choose to pay less.

 

but costs are also mfg specific, especially for the rest of the car. and certain technologies may provide better mpk than others. just like gassers, every mfg will deliver something different and at different costs.
there's no question that a 200 mile bev is not economical yet, or we'd have one. part of announcing a future offering is counting on technology prices to continue to drop.

 

That's misleading without the context of when. We need to be clear with expectations.

The announcements and responses to them give the impression of next-gen offerings. We know that won't be the case though.

Production ramp-up and the struggle to deal with expiring tax-credits is what this next-gen will address. It won't be until the following for lower cost than the estimate provided.

 

of course it's misleading. that's marketings job, to walk the tightrope between hyperbole and fraud.

 

A sad, but true reality.

 

But for a sticker, who's worst case scenario do you use?
I can imagine a worse life scenario where you loose 80% efficiency.

 

i don't know, hill should be given the job. he's had plenty of experience in fantasyland.

 

It isn't fantasy, I've experienced it.
So just who's "worst case" scenario would you put on a sales sticker?
If I live in Denver and have a Prius, I can get 999mpg as long I am am driving down the mountain.
My worst case might be as low as 10mpg from a cold start in 20 below temps, fully loaded going uphill for 2 miles.

If I live somewhere flat, and temperate, I would never see that in a Prius.

 

that's what i'm saying. put zero for worst and unlimited for best.

 

I totally agree with the concept of worst case varying from driver to driver. Yet there is no good reason to think only one set of average conditions provides adequate buyer information. I would support an EPA set of "adverse" conditions. The adverse conditions would be -xx degrees, xx average headwinds, and any other far north stressful conditions that could enable repeatable testing at some outdoor site or facility.

I would not make this mandatory for auto makers, but I would make it a regulation that any car maker stating their vehicle performs to XXX in "adverse conditions" must provide the data from a government standard evaluation setup, not from a market department gaming result.

 

Evertbody, it's called a graph, or at worst case, a 2D chart.

 

maybe a disclaimer, 'for best performance, allow your car to remain garaged at all times'.

 

Tesla posted such a graph once for speed vs range.
I agree that is a great visual and helps people understand the relationship.
I'd love to see a similar graph for temperature. Another for cargo weight. Yet another for elevation changes.
And then don't forget to have one for speed and temperature. An other for speed and cargo weight. And another for speed and Elevation change.

Oh, and then cargo weight and temperature, and...

These things are too complicated to be able to sum up on a Malroney sticker.
It is great info to have and an important part of consumer education. Both Nissan and Tesla already have some of this information available. I find Tesla's the most comprehensive, although it is missing some factors and could be improved.

I would agree with that. Although I have rarely seen such performance numbers from manufacturers. Almost always it is simply the EPA rating.
Perhaps a single bell curve showing how many people get over and under the EPA mileage? Of course, then that data needs to be gathered...