Prime destined to be doa?

Or it could be car manufacturers trying out 100+ mile BEV as feelers? They are in the dark in a new territory with no idea how to sell one at what price when everybody seems to suddenly want to get on board. Actually only 2 manufacturers have stated an approximate (starting) price and those are for 200+ mile BEVs. Everything else has been a WAG including mine.


Unsupervised!

 

I don't think so. EVs have caught on about as fast as hybrids did when they were first released.
Thee sub-100 mile range was not because the auto makers made a guess about range, it was that batteries were expensive.

The only way to get more than 100 miles was to make a luxury level vehicle and all makers other than Tesla didn't feel that would work.
Battery prices have come down dramatically over the last 6 years making longer range EVs for the same price very much a possibility.

 

This goes back to the OP question of this thread; the answer comes down to price.

The MSRP for the base 107 mile Leaf is $34,200 without destination and handling fees. The new Volt is $34,095 with the delivery fees. The 200+ mile Bolt will start around $37k, which is where the high trim 107 mile Leaf is at, and the Model 3 might be starting at $35k. The Leaf isn't selling well because it is expensive, with the low gas prices not helping it.

The next Leaf will be at least 150 miles, but Nissan has released no solid details. It could be more. It could have an Al-air battery range extender option. Price could drop or stay the same. We will have to wait for the info.

The upcoming 200 mile BEVs appear to be starting in the high thirty to forty thousand dollar range. The announced Hyundai likely will too. I expect the 110 mile Ioniq to be under thirty grand though.

My commute is 30 miles one way. This is the high end of the spectrum for the majority of commute distances. To account for some side trips and winter range loss, 90 mile range for a BEV is the minimum. So 110 miles is plenty for me, and everybody else with shorter commutes.

While there are some good reasons for getting the longer range and bigger battery, for a BEV that will be a family's second car, and only intended for commuting duties, lower price will be an important factor.

 

Those are good points, for Europe though.
In the USA, we may have a different subsidy structure and political drivers are different.

I would hazard a guess, in the USA we have a regular market and a plug-in market. The plug-in market here generally wants as much range as they can get by EV. Also our subsidies by battery size favor that approach.

A large portion of USA plug-ins are sold in California, where the market splits into two segements: those who want free HOV access (EV miles not so important), and those who want maximum EV miles.

Europe I view as looking for the power and pep of diesel, and less interest in gaso, and paying a lot more for imports.

 

wouldn't it be great, if EPA /manufacturers had to publish worse case scenarios for range/miles per kWh? .... say maximum occupancy, @ 30° Fahrenheit, & include pulling a grade for 25% of the charge. Then give the same range parameters at 150,000 miles or 15% capacity loss, whichever comes 1st.
If it was any one thing that pissed us off personally, it was how Nissan boasted of a 100 mile ev range for our 2011 model (still have a few free mouse pads with those claims). Sure, the boilerplate stated otherwise (YMMV) .... but you don't groom customer loyalty using those kinds of underhanded tactics. Let prospective owners know what to expect - for cryin' out loud.
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The 100 miles were a debacle and part of the reason the Leaf didn't do better than it did.
That said, do you see worse case scenarios published for gas cars/trucks?

The Leaf was a matter of Nissan advertising their own number instead of the EPA range.
The EPA range is very close to correct for the typical driver.

What all manufacturers should do is to have a very clear, well thought out, website or other documentation showing just how range is affected by various types of driving and loads.
Personally, I'm very curious how the range will be effected of a Model X when hauling a trailer.

 

unfortunately, we have to depend on the spa test. no mfg is going to discount their own range while others boast. i can't speak for other ev's, but 11 miles was pretty accurate for pip.

 

11 with a lot of babying.

 

no 20, with a lot of babying, 15-16 on a regular basis. but i won't speak for myself. i would guess the average is around 11 here, some get less, most get more.

 

My best was 19, being the granny driver i am
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See, this is exactly why the worst case scenario should not be put forth on any type of mileage rating.
Too much can vary from driver to driver and region to region.

This is where consumer education comes in.

 

Putting forth a best high & worst low isn't a bad idea - but with current EPA's, many can get way worse than the published worst & some get better than the best published. It's not too hard to establish those kind of boundaries if they put even a half-hearted effort into it.
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Oops. Posted from a phone.

 

Are you guys counting round trip? No way I can get more than 13 with fan and ac off round trip.

 

not sure what you mean by round trip, but i mean, starting with a full charge, and counting the miles until the ice comes on.
i believe you and others have reported as low as 8 or 9.

have you tried driving on 25 to 30 mph streets in nice weather in a flat area?

 

Yep - you'd be surprised what a difference sub 50mph constant speed on level ground & max tire psi will yield you during optimum temps & windows up.

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exactly.

 

I've done that. Round trip means you don't get the advantage of a lower finishing elevation

 

gotcha. good point. i often finish in the same place, but it's so flat around here, you really can't go 20 miles downhill.
i will say, there have been a few reports here from people who feel their battery isn't up to snuff.

 

Folks on short trips during Alaskan Winters can easily get below 300 miles per tank in a std pri. Best hypermile'ers under ideal conditions can approach 1,000 miles. See a similarity?
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