Prime destined to be doa?

It's going to be off-grid solar shingles and batts if I do it probably

 

The Ioniq BEV looks to be 110 miles. Sub 200 by a lot, but depending on price could be a successful second car for many.

Honda hasn't released any range for the Clarity BEV, but they claim greater than 40 miles EV with the PHEV. While those 40 miles could be under JC08, the Clarity isn't a compact car like the Bolt. It is in the same class as the Accord, and it will seat 5. Considering what Honda will likely charge, they probably aren't aiming for range suitable for local use only.

Honda will offer all-electric and PHEV versions of the Clarity as soon as next year | Electrek

Yet hydrogen, or any compressed gas, has limitations that a liquid fuel doesn't. A busy hydrogen station can bottleneck as its compressors and chillers can't keep up with demand for fuel from the pumps of a busy rush. Then a fill can take as long as a fast DC charge for a BEV, with the chance of a complete fill not possible.

For those pushing hydrogen, I don't see the potential either. For the others, the potential is in fuel cells that use a fuel other than hydrogen; either directly like some methanol ones, or with an onboard reformer for other types.

Fuel cells are more thermally efficient that ICEs. In a series hybrid PHEV, this means better hybrid fuel economy.

Switch the personal car fleet to PHEV and BEV, and petroleum consumption for that sector drops. Replace the ICE on the PHEVs with a fuel cell that uses the same fuel, it drops further. At same time as reducing the fuel consumption, add more renewable fuels to the mix, and hopefully we'll hit a point where the majority, if not all, of the liquid fuel for our cars is renewable. Electricity should take the same path.

Audi has a pilot plant making a blue crude from water, CO2, and excess renewable electric. That blue crude can easily be refined into diesel. Volvo has a fuel cell that auto reforms diesel. Right now, the size and output is such that it will be marketed for an auxiliary power unit for a long haul trucks and buts, but it should improve in time.

If you are looking a 20 mile or so PHEV, a regular 15 amp outlet fills the slow and overnight part, and it most likely means no additional cost.
A home EVSE will be in the $500 to $1000 range, maybe less, depending on the required work needed. Talk of wireless charging seems to assume those charge rates that an EVSE can provide. The higher power improves charge efficiency.

So wireless charging will add onto the cost of a EVSE, and will also add cost to the car itself for the required equipment. $2000 for it all wouldn't be an extreme guess.

If you are off grid with solar and charging at night, you probably want to avoid the extra losses of wireless charging in order to lower the wear on your home batteries.

 

when was it said that it would? and why shouldn't we look forward at some point to the next gen prime?

 

If people are complaining about only 22 miles of range, then it appears that Toyota would be steering them towards a FC for more electric range sometime in the future, so don't expect a 100 mile range Prime next time around. Maybe another 20 miles to bring it up to 40 miles. If the Prime meets a person's needs and they love it, then of course they will buy it. But the direction Toyota is going seems like the Prius Prime family is staying the route of hybrid on steroids. For me, I'd like to get as much electric as possible, but it would have to be able to be supercharged. A 250 mile Bolt wouldn't interest me. If Toyota came out with a hybrid pickup truck or SUV that got in the 40 mpg range, I'd get one of those for my next utility vehicle.

 

i don't know if 100 was anything more than what the industry offered up - saying "this is what you want". So you took the 100 - or you'd just have to walk.
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It was a target prior to offerings.... much like 200 is now, except that was outstanding for much longer. The faster target change is causing a bit of inconsistency. Mixed messages can lead to problems.

 

yes the inconsistency is called proving that a 'lie' was put forth. The lie is shown for what it is by the fact that now tesla is selling 10's of thousands per year. People wanted more tha 100 all the time. So out of fear of losing market share - here come the very same johnny come latelies that tried to sell the public on the stinking BS .. "100 is all the public wants". Lo and behold - now the manufacturers can suddenly build what most people wanted, all the time.
If the Toyota Prime sales end up in the toilet, watch how fast Toyota can throw together a longer-range 5 seater plugin. Or - if sales are crappy, will they make the same "no one's knocking on our door to build a plugin" 'proof'? the proof being low sales ... never willing to admit the failure is due to not making what buyers want? Hope not. Time will tell.
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no phev will ever have the 'correct' amount of ev miles for everyone. if you want to dive all ev, you should buy a bev. not everyone wants that. it's not an all or nothing decision.

 

Excellent answer bisco! Nor will it have the correct storage (people or cargo), fun factor, range, gas mileage when in HV mode, seating, 4 -wheel drive, etc., etc.. Of course the Prime is an easy target because it's the only horse in the stable for Toyota. If Toyota suddenly decided to build a Prime based Rav4, Highlander, or Sienna most of these issues would be redirected.


Unsupervised!

 

patience grasshopper.

 

I think it is the other way. Lower voltage trickle charges for a more complete fill

I might be planning on having both 110 and 220 outlets next to each other; 110 for complete battery top offs and the 220 for 80% and quicker charging. Does anyone know if that "up to $1,000 federal tax credit" still available for installing an EVSE for homeowners?

 

Charge efficiency and level of fill is two different metrics. Charge efficiency is a measure of how much of the electricity taken from the wall actually gets stored in the battery, and EVSE level 2 is more efficient than level 1.

	Charge event dataset	Average Level 2 Charge Efficiency	Average Level 1 Charge Efficiency	Efficiency gain of Level 2 charging
1	Total combined	86.4%	83.7%	2.7%
2	High energy only (>2 kWh charge)	86.5%	84.2%	2.3%
3	Low energy only (<2 kWh charge)	83.5%	70.7%	12.8%

https://www.veic.org/docs/Transportation/20130320-EVT-NRA-Final-Report.pdf

If you want to fill a battery up as much as possible, trickle(low rate) charging is the way to go. The low current flow isn't fighting against the battery's internal resistance as much, which limits how much the battery heats up. A hot battery won't be able to accept its full nominal charge. This applies in the case of using a dumb charger.

Plug in cars have smart chargers. Depending on current state of charge and temperatures, they'll charge at a rate as fast as possible at the start. As the battery nears full SOC, the charger lowers the rate to lower the heat generated, and allow the battery to reach full SOC without excess wear. Some plug ins will have active thermal management, and cool the battery, or heat, during charging.

Just let the car's charger handle it. Besides, it is the amperage drawn that is varying between charge rates.

IIRC, it expired last year.

 

L2 charging shouldn't have any issues filling a battery as completely as L1 charging, I'd think, unless the charger was COMPLETELY braindead - once the battery reaches a point that it can't take the L2 EVSE's full output, the charger (in the car) will automatically reduce current draw to what the battery can take.

Also, the Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Tax Credit was extended through the end of this year: Alternative Fuels Data Center

 

With EVSE's available for around $500, or even less, it would seem the residential part isn't needed, since the law was written when the EVSE itself was up to $2000.

 

This is called the "guy" viewpoint. Wait till the "gal" viewpoint is presented to you. "If one of the kids gets sick, I want to have at least 100 miles in the "tank" to handle any emergency."

If I want to have an EV or PHEV in the family, I need to craft my EV justifications carefully. While lugging around an extra 300 lbs of battery is not very efficient, it totally eclipses carrying around 3000 extra pounds of SUV. The "safety range" may have two points of view under one roof.

 

Hyundai announces 200 mile BEV for 2018 with 250 miles to follow in 2020:

Hyundai planning 250-mile electric vehicle by 2020 - Autoblog

 

sshhhhh....Toyota thinks we don't realize that

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2018? who even knows if we'll be here in 2018?

 

Do you know something that we don't?

Does the thread title need to be changed to "We are all destined to be DOA"?

 

Is someone expecting the zombie apocalypse ?

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