Prime destined to be doa?

The context is pretty clearly that the Bolt will reach the market first. Not better. This is completely true. I also expect Nissan to get the 2nd gen Leaf to market before the Model 3 does.

Of course it isn't taking all factors into account, it is focused on other manufacturers "Tesla Fighters".
Is it also mutually exclusive "spin" against the Camry because the Camry wasn't mentioned?

 

doesn't mean they ever intend to, either. And clearly when you advertise plugs are only for folks who have "4 hours to waste" .... that Toyota presently has zero intention on going that route. True, Toyota isn't avoiding the plug entirely. But there's evidevtly no desire of Toyota to make plugs look better than hydrogen (easy to do), by having 5 seats or 35+ ev miles. Those features would be the instant death of the already overpriced 4 seater hydrogen car.
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the prime is relevant to this thread.
the fact is, tesla and prime success are mutually exclusive, even though there will always be some cross shopping between plug ins. there are growing markets for each. the answer to the o/p's question continues to be 'no', and toyota's comments about ev's will have no affect on the answer.
even hill showed interest in the prime, and he has t shirts with toyota quotes on them.

10 years from now, people will be asking, 'whatever happened to that car maker, toyota'?

 

Except Hyundai and Honda are both hedging their bets with plug ins.

Since the Tuscan FCEV release a couple of years ago, there has been no big news about future plans in regards to hydrogen FCEV from Hyundai. Instead, they released the Sonata PHEV with the Ioniq and Kia Niro plug ins to follow at the end of this year. Honda's new Clarity with also be sold as a BEV and PHEV in addition to the FCEV.

 

Even if Toyota crashed the way GM once did (going from #1 to bankruptcy) - they could still come back. I doubt it'll come to that.
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“At Hyundai, we strongly believe that hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles represent the next generation of zero-emission vehicle technology, and we’re proud to be a leader in offering the mass-produced Tucson Fuel Cell to our customers,” said Dave Zuchowski, president and chief executive officer, Hyundai Motor America. “Every day, these customers are enjoying the benefits of refueling speed and superior range that compare favorably with gasoline vehicles, providing a seamless transition from traditional vehicles with minimal loss of utility. We’re confident that advancing fuel cell technology will increase the adoption of zero-emission vehicles, and that everyone will benefit.”

Yes they may be hedging their bets, but they still believe the future is Hydrogen. They are not going to come out with Tesla 3 competitors. But rather sub 200 mile EVs.

Unsupervised!

 

I have to agree that there is little interest, or purpose in having a 250+ mile EV. The battery is one of the largest costs, and that cost is roughly proportional to capacity. There is no point in paying to have a 300 mile battery when most of the time only 10% is utilized. Furthermore, it still is inconvenient to wait 30 minutes for a "quick" charge when on a road trip. In that regard, hydrogen has conventional batteries beat.

That said, hydrogen is DOA. The problem it faces is that it doesn't fulfill the niche of long range because we already have vehicles with regular engines that can go the distance. It also doesn't fulfill the need of an alternative fuel because the large majority of H2 is derived from petroleum. Finally, the infrastructure cannot compete with electricity as most people already have the means to charge a vehicle. Extending electric infrastructure is a relatively simple matter. "Filling" at home cannot be beat for the convenience factor.

I cannot envision hydrogen vehicles as being successful, but there are many smart people working on them, so I wonder what potential they see that I'm missing. In my opinion, H2 success is less likely than Elon's "probable failure" with Tesla.

 

and what would you expect them to say in their commercial for their hydrogen product? - that it's a financial black hole?

are you presuming the 10's of thousands of current owners most of the time drive 30 miles? ... I doubt the 400,000 folks with $1,000 down waiting for the model 3 are only contemplating 30 miles usage most of the time. Not that this notion is correct, but if it were - that very minimum use would add at least another 150,000 miles to the battery's longevity. So that would be okay anyway.
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Of course the people who have reserved the Model 3 are wanting more than 30 miles of range. Having 200+ miles of range allows more people to replace their sole vehicle with an EV. There are other benefits of a larger capacity, too. More power, more regen capacity, higher electrical output for "quick" charging, battery longevity... there is a balance though. More capacity increases cost and weight. It also depletes resources and creates more demand for the materials that comprise a battery.

It's best to have a capacity that achieves the desires of most people, while being no larger. I like the idea of having a modular battery design that allows customers to choose which size makes the most sense to their situation. It seems Tesla has set 200 miles of range as a minimum though.

 

Funny how 100 miles was considered the tipping-point years ago. That "enough" level certainly had changed.

 

It is the center of this thread. My comment was directed at John who indicated that the author of a linked news story had failed to mention the Prime.
The Prime had no place in the story referenced.

As for the thread, I am interested in the Prime. I am looking forward to it and hoping that Toyota makes it available nationwide.

 

Yes we got off on a side topic and I am passing on it

 

You'd be surprised at how much it is not an inconvenience to stop for 30 mins.
You really need experience a road trip with superchargers before saying it is bad or good.
I thought it'd be a pain, but concluded that it was quite relaxing and preferable after doing 2 of these.
Yes, that big battery is not fully used all the time. If the cost and weight could come down by a factor of 2, then that would be less of a factor.

 

It was a bit of a side topic, but at least related to where Toyota was going with the Prime. Appears the Prime will not morph into a BEV anytime soon, so don't hold your breath for the next gen Prime.

 

resources ... you mean resources like gas & oil?

... or resources similar to a the recyclable cast iron short block .... the recyclable battery

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I really want a smaller batt and more space and I want wireless charging on my garage floor. I might retrofit a PiP if that is possible.

 

How much extra would you pay for wireless charging?

 

Not a whole lot but I am willing to accept a real slow charge overnight

 

If I were picking up the charge from the roadway at highway speeds, I'd pay quite handsomely.

 

..... & 10% loss thru the inductive process ?
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