Prime destined to be doa?

It is purely a question cost.
If enough people demand the faster charger, I don't see why it couldn't become a refresh option.

 

Kill the subsidies to oil companies. And kill the legislation against Tesla's sales model. And tax carbon commensurate with the cost of the harm done..

Thank you kindly.

 

ah well, we're back full circle, aren't we.

 

I have seen more 2016 Volts than 2016 Prius ' around. Yeah, it's been out longer but new Prius has been out over 4 months now.

Anyhow, I don't think the Prime is going to sell so much at 22 mi range and 4 seats. We'll see.

 

HOV privileges and the $7,500 tax-credit better make Volt more popular than Prius. Those are both temporary though, a terrible business dependency.

As for Prime, that's new territory and the price is still unknown.

 

I haven't seen a single Gen II Volt yet, but have seen many Gen IV Prii. The original Volt was rare in the Portland area, which surprises me because we adopt all the "green" cars. Heck, I see more Teslas than Volts.

Prius is probably the most popular vehicle here.

 

Easy answer: more CA green HOV stickers will give Toyota all the sales it needs.
At that point this Thread is DOA. No more green stickers= Prime is DOA.

 

well, i wouldn't go that far, but it will put a world of hurt on sales. still should be able to sell a thousand a month or more in 50 states. again, there are a few things we don't know yet.

 

exactly.

 

Why have Volt sales been such a struggle?

What makes the particular capacity of 53 miles a draw?

Why have both enthusiasts and GM itself moved attention to Bolt instead?

There are an abundant number of simple excuses available as answers to those questions. We've seen countless debates over the years. All provide reasoning. None reach beyond enthusiasts though. Appeal to ordinary consumers isn't a matter of logic. For that matter, it isn't a decision based upon emotion either.

There's a very real problem of stirring interest. Desire from dealers to offer plug-in choices is extremely low. Why? Not even being able to overcome that hurdle means the customer base will remain enthusiasts only. For a mainstream consumer to even consider a purchase, the vehicle must be readily available. Seeing it on the showroom floor, then being able to immediately go for a test-drive is priceless. That's how sales to ordinary people happen.

This thread claiming DOA doesn't address that. Why is such a fundamental principle like that still being overlooked?

Toyota's decision to deliver a system "only" offering 22 miles actually addresses the issue. You'll get full EV performance that's easy to understand, but won't have to bother discussing EV support. With a pack that size, there's simply no need for a level-2 charger at home. Salespeople can simply point out that faster charging is available, but the 120-volt outlet in their garage is already enough. Nothing else needs to be said. Intimidation, Anxiety, Uncertainty, Skepticism, Concern... they are all dealt with entirely. It's a no-worry sales pitch the customer won't have any reason to question.

Prime won't be a plug-in model of Prius either. There are obvious stand-out features, extras no available with Prius. That makes it even more of a draw. True, that will obviously compel some interested in Prius to purchase a Prime instead. However, Prime will also stir interest in some who aren't interested in Prius. It's complimentary product, rather than competing.

I wonder why some people don't see those qualities of Prime. My guess is they are quick to judge, unaware of all the factors actually at play. Since many were not paying close attention to the market until recently, that seems a reason thought. After all, if you aren't interested in a purchase soon, why would you participate in discussions? You'd have to be a supporter of the technology... which means you aren't an ordinary consumer.

Who is the market for Prime?

 

Although, conversely, if you're fine with 22 miles of range, the Volt can just be partially charged, too, on 120. (Or, frankly, if you have a 1 hour commute and you get off work at 17:00, that means that you can start charging at 18:00, charging completes at approximately 07:00 (13 hours on 120), with an hour to spare before you have to leave for work to arrive at 09:00.)

And, both have the gas engine as a backup.

I personally really dislike the Volt, but the Prime's smaller battery taking less time to charge isn't an advantage, because it's also storing less energy. The Prime's smaller battery and choice of battery location affecting the passenger space available in the back seat, on the other hand, is. (And, the Prime getting better fuel economy once the battery is depleted is an advantage.)

 

I don't look upon us long term PC'ers as huge fans or critics of either GM or Toyota, rather we praise or criticize the features or lack thereof. As to 53 miles? even ev purists - owners of the various sub 100mile ev's would look longingly at a 53 PHEV, once they're facing 100K miles / 25% - 35% capacity loss,IMO.
.

 

That completely cancels out the simplicity. Having to tradeoff any type of night life (driving anywhere for anything in the evening) for the sake of plugging in immediately upon coming home from work is too much. Remember how important KISS is for acceptance of mainstream buyers?

Prime easily fits into the space of being able to plug in after coming home from whatever in the evening and still have plenty of time for a full charge. Heck, you have even take advantage of off-peak rates (starting at 11pm) too.

That certainly wasn't the sentiment of the Plug-In owners club meeting here on Thursday night. Most just plan to upgrade to a 200-mile EV when that time comes.

 

You make it sound like the Volt will stop dead, though, if the battery dies.

It won't.

It'll just keep going a little more noisily than before, just like what will happen in the Prime once you exceed 22 miles.

And, if your normal commute is 22 miles round trip, a partial charge will cover the trip. You don't have to charge to 100% every time if you're not using 100% of the range.

 

That's how easy it is to fall into the capacity trap.

Now, you're stuck having to explain why purchasing more than you actually need is a good idea.

 

it may not be if you don't need it, but if it's the same price as the competitions 22 miles...

i can't think of one prime feature that's going to lure buyers away from prius, or any other car for that matter.

and we have a long way to go (years) before dealerships and sales people try to move prime over camry, corolla and other models.

 

Installing a 240v outlet and buying a L2 EVSE is easy for the consumer when they contract out the work. The cost is relatively low compared to the cost of a new vehicle. For those who need more frequent charging, installing a L2 charging system is an option.

Another option that was already mentioned is plugging into two separate 120v circuits that are on opposite sides of the breaker panel using a Y extension cord to get 240v.

 

18 kWh will COST more than 8.8 kWh, especially since the 18 also includes liquid cooling. That's a fact without debate. It's a matter of how much the difference will be later.

PRICE will be competitive temporarily. But once those tax-credits run out... which could be rather soon if GM really does go all out with Bolt... then Volt is left to struggle with that higher COST.

Shopper who want to take advantage of the short-term opportunity could do well. The catch is, there must be Volt to actually buy. Heavy emphasis toward Bolt would likely reduce inventory for Volt. After all, lithium cells will be in high demand with limited supply.

 

agreed. if volt is commensurately higher than prime, due to battery size? let the games begin!