Prime destined to be doa?

I don't know if rear heated seats are going to help that sweaty person.

Now, if they're AC/ventilated ? Yes ... that would be "cool".
See what I did there?
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Not sure if we'll get the Lexus cooling feature in a Toyota. But that is a "chilling" thought... it sends a chill down my spine.

 

My point is that the lack of comfort of an adult in the middle seat of standard-sized sedans is not a good reason to eliminate it. There are plenty of opportunities to use the 5th seat with children, or with smaller adults, or by larger adults for short periods of time.

Cup holders are a poor use of that space.

Heated rear seats interest me, too. Cabin heating is way less efficient than running seat heaters, and besides, resistance heating is super cheap and easy to implement. I'd be willing to pay just a little more to drastically improve rear seat comfort and not have to run the cabin heater.

As far as width of the vehicle, I don't want it any wider for those few occasions that people briefly occupy all seats.

 

You're forgetting the added storage and possible 12-volt or USB.

 

They have already been implemented in better ways:

 

Not having to bend forward to reach is nice.

A larger storage area that doubles as an armrest is nice too.

Change is a mix. Some people will like it. Some won't. Look at how many new vehicles are using distinctive rear lighting now... just 9 months after Prius was deemed too different.

 

It matters a lot. You think a 480 x 800 resolution would be OK? I don't. But it looks like they didn't screw it up.




Merged.

Come to Phoenix and you'll get all of your seats heated for free (-;

 

I think that resolution would probably be fine. It might even be higher than the one I have in the PiP with rear camera.

Again, I ask why it matters? Nobody has given a reason yet. I suppose to see more detail when looking at the screen while reversing? My experience is that it's good enough to identify objects.

I'll just reiterate that all of these things have been around for a while, and perform very well without the need to remove the middle seat.

 

You're treating the matter as if it depended upon logical choices. That's a common trap to fall into. Take a class in marketing. You're in for a surprise.

I rather enjoyed that aspect of my degree. The counter-initiative nature of consumer behavior can be fascinating.

 

Lettering. Higher resolution leads to cleaner lines for words. Makes them easier to recognize and faster to comprehend. Might want that when someone is on your tail while they are trying to figure out how to tune the radio, or get heat, A/C, etc. I know most of the controls are icon driven but many of them have the controls spelled out as well. And you might find this shocking but well you know some people just don't read the owners' manual.

 

'phev shoppers seem to prioritize range.' but those are past and present phev shoppers, part of the ev niche group. digging into the other 99% of car buyers will involve primes other superior attributes over competitors.

 

True. Was definitely a turn off for me when I test drove an Accord.

 

That reductio ad absurdum is not really helpful...

It's the absolute of "all must have 5" that I'm pointing out. Remember, the point is to reach new customers by diversifying.

There will be a plug-in hybrid with 5 later. This first with have 4. It's a clear effort to expand choices.

 

Oh hell no! If you have an option of multiple vehicles NOOOOOOBOOODDDDYYY is going to take any Prius if it's more than 4 people. They'll take the SUV or minivan. Even if some of the time they may be occupied with 1 or more car seats. And if it comes down to a lot of people they take multiple cars.

Sheesh, this sounds like the same arguments we had back when they switched out all the front bench seats with buckets seats. The bragging rights (a lot of advertisements) back then was your car will seat 6 people. With SUVs and minivans this became a moot point. With $2.00/gal gas nobody will volunteer to straddle the hump in any car when they can get to a nice high seat just for themselves in an SUV.

 

And 99% of those car buyers don't even look at a hybrid without a plug.
Of the car shoppers that will look at a Prime that aren't looking for a PHEV, the majority will likely be people looking at the Prius; the potential upsell. What does the Prime offer over the Prius, besides the plug? What is there that they couldn't get in the Camry or Avalon, hybrid or ICE? There are trade offs for all those choices. I think the trade offs for the Prime will overshadow the pluses when compared to those others.

After living with a Prime for awhile, do we have reason to believe that these people will have different views than current PHEV owners? Like wishing for some more EV range in the PiP, a fifth seat in the Volt, or more cargo room in the Energis? Toyota had a chance to learn, not just from the PiP, but from their competitors too. It appears they learned the wrong things.

Twenty miles seems to be the sweet spot for EV range while maintaining the utility people expect from a car. The Prime bungled this. The Audi A1 E-tron PHEV prototypes had a reported EV range of 30 miles while not intruding into the passenger and cargo space. Factor in cost and pricing, I expect some loss there in most production cars.

My main issue with missing seat involves the flak GM got about it. With roomier rear seats, I think it is worse to lose it in a midsize than in a compact, but if you have decided to go that route, lay out the battery as it is the Volt. The placing is better for the car's weight distribution, and it may not mean a loss of cargo space. The Prime does have a smaller pack than the Volt, after all. Air cooling will require the packaging to be bulkier than what liquid cooling would allow, but the pack should still under the rear seats, and then down along the centerline towards the front. A little bit of space might be lost in the hatch for the charger.

Considering the improvement that the gen2 Volt battery underwent from the first gen, the Prime could have kept the fifth seat while limiting the loss of cargo space. The doubling of the PiP's battery capacity should not result in the doubling of needed volume using newer battery technology, though. Yet the Prime loses the fifth seat, and as much cargo space as the C-max Energi does.

I don't think we can rule out the possibility that the Prime unveiled was mocked up to show a worse case scenario for Toyota to judge which compromise is the one to go with in the production model, but I'll not waste time dreaming about that possibility.

Apparently GM was just ahead of the times.

Your right that a group will go for the more comfortable ride for all, but not all groups have access to a SUV or minivan. Of the five people in my work group, nobody drives one to work. Then the owner of the larger ride may not feel like driving.

Losing the front bench seat was a different issue. Changing safety standards likely played a role. Then many of those cars were RWD with a transmission tunnel to match. Where did the front middle passenger's feet go? As a driver, I wouldn't want someone elses foot in my footwell.

 

yes, but i'm talking about people who don't think like us. we can't predict what they will do. john says they are the ones toyota is looking to. pick up drivers, suv drivers, mid and large sedans, everything in the non hybrid/ev market. only time will tell.

 

There's a demograph being overlooked still... those who want a Prius but don't really want a "family" car. That's a lot of people to forget about.

 

Who will buy Prime vs. Prius? the same people who are buying Fusion Energi and Volt.

It is Calfornians who want to Plug-In and get free HOV. Outside of CA it is people who want to Plug-in. Some plug-in enthusiasts are willing to accept 20-25 miles EV. If they are not happy with 20-25, they have Volt or BEV.

Also depending on state, Colorado with ~$6000+ $7500 Federal off on Volt, that will obviously favor Volt in CO.

 

people who don't want a lift back because it's a family car, will buy the same car because it has a plug, 4 seats and less hatch room? there is something called a prius c, which isn't really a family car. and volt, if they want a plug, and aren't averse to gm.