Plug-In Road Rage: It begins

All well and good when another gas-only pump is available.

Do you wait around for a gas-only, clogging up the station traffic pattern, when only a multi-fuel pump is available?

 

No need to, virtually every gas station I go to not only doesn't have the gas/diesel combo pump, they don't have crowds.

 

So just asking your institutional opinion for when the inevitable occurs...

Do you wait around for a gas-only, clogging up the station traffic pattern, when only a multi-fuel pump is available?

 

Sure, why not. Since places that actually have the combo pumps only have at the most a few of them, usually there's a lot of a gas only pumps and one will open up soon.

 

What a guy. I'll bet that makes you new friends, fast...

"So just asking your institutional opinion for when the inevitable occurs...

Do you wait around for a gas-only, clogging up the station traffic pattern, when only a multi-fuel pump is available?"

 

Nope, but I don't have any problems sleeping at night.

 

That'll get him a thanks from me.

Gassers blocking diesel pumps is the worst. Sometimes if I'm lined up behind gassers and there are other gasoline pumps available for them, I ask if they can move to another pump as I need that specific one. I usually get a look that says "F off". Guess changing lanes at the gas station is too much to ask from most people.

 

you might be completely right about this. The sad part is, we will never know: the current EV tax credits begin to expire the minute a manufacturer makes about 200,000 EVs, and even re-upping them would not be an apples-to-apples comparison since battery prices keep going down and gas prices keep going up. So, eventually the EV tax credit will no longer be necessary and PHEVs and possibly even EVs will be able to compete with ICE cars, at higher gas prices than we have now. But, going forward, there may be merit to offering employers somer sort of tax incentive if -and only if- they install public charging stations in areas that have external benefits in the areas of renewables, grid management/storage/v2g, proximity to adjacent shopping & commercial areas, etc. The cost of administering the credit should always be weighed against alternative used of those funds that could still achieve the goal or even better it.
I did not mean to imply everything works perfectly according to laws of economics (or only those with an understanding of it know what's going on ....your example of Big Oil corrupting our politics is excellent: one where no matter how much knowledge one has, they are not going to get a sensible, logical policy past moneyed self-interest

 

There was a tax credit for employers on installing chargers. It was one of the ones that Congress let expire.
Congress Fails To Renew Certain EV Related Tax Credits | PriusChat
Some of them were no longer needed, or should have been in the first place, but the employer one was still worth it.

 

This will all work out in time, but discontinuation of free charging (entitlement) might be a step in the right direction. Unlike HFCV's, we are way past the experimental prototype stage now.

 

We have some fundamental things going on right here.
The Tesla chargers are not free, but they are included in the price of the car. Part of the money was kicked in from the federal government and states. The solar panels used to collect the electricity, I believe are at a minimum are subsidized by 30%+ (65% here in austin between federal, state of texas, and city of austin). Once they go in though they don't cost much.

The california chargers are the ones that seem to have the most road rage, but this may be because california drivers generate the most road rage period. I see no reason for these to stay free if simply being free is a cause of problems.

The chargers at places of work, are often given as a benefit to employees like coffee. I don't think we should federally regulate if they are free or not. Nor do I think they any longer need federal subsidies.

As for free hydrogen at hydrogen stations, I don't think the state should do that either. Hydundai and Mercedes say it will be included with the lease. This is kind of like the tesla deal. Let the car companies pick it up not the tax payers. California has voted to spend $20M of tax payer money to subsidies building these things, which is far more than tesla gets for its superchargers, but lets see how it works out. I have a feeling they will fail like they did last time, too few cars so hydrogen stations closed. If they suceed let the state at most subsidise the price of hydrogen, make the driver or the car company pick up the tab. If carb is right that 160,000 fuel cell cars will be on the road in 2025, then we are talking hundreds of millions a year just in fuel subsidies if the drivers don't start paying.

 

Believe I read that a pricing structure for H has to be in place by 2016. As to the electric rage in CA, would happen here as well if we ever got enough of those "special cars" from only a few CARB states and the demand for "special free charging" out strips supply. Having lived in both states extensively I do prefer Texas drivers, but in the city it's still dog eat dog.

 

If the rage is to stop, start charging for use of the stations at work. Part of the fees collected could go to installation of additional stations at work. Just think, your use of the station would be a very good way to expand the availability of stations. As more plug-ins are sold, more stations will have to be added any way.

Look at paying to use the stations as beening proactive to the cause of helping to expand the use of plug-ins. Contributing to the costs of expanding the stations is a noble cause.

DBcassidy

 

I would hope so, but california doesn't seem to want to make prices public, so they have not set regulations. Remember in April it will be 10 years since the hydrogen highway was anounced. You would think they could set regulations for pricing this year.

Only Toyota and Honda seem to be restricting their plug-ins to CARB states. Nissan, Tesla, GM, Ford, mitsubishi, smart, all sell plug-ins to non-carb states. BMW has only had trial runs until this year, but when it launches the i3, Austin is a launch city.

Austin Energy which is tracking these things says that

They also charge a nominal fee so that people at least pay something. Its $25 for 6 months unlimited charging. I really doubt we will get california's charge rage from people that have lived here for awhile. We do have a lot of californians that have moved here, that bring some of their bad manners with them. At least in central texas commutes of plug-in owners are well within the range of the plug in.
Plug-In Austin

 

I did some checking on EVs sold in Texas. No Spark EV, Fiat 500e, Smart ED, Rav4 EV, Prius Plug-In and of course no lease for Fit EV. Some you can buy and bring home, but the Fit EV is no go no way. Others have issues with service here. Haven't check the BMW yet. I only looked at current models though you may have more info, it's pretty much the iMiEV, Leaf, Focus EV and Plug-In and of course the Tesla (if you are rich) here.

 

We have smart Eds here in Austin. I believe the fiats are just prototypes only 405 leased vehicles, we aren't really missing anything there. The bmw prototypes were california only. The i3 gets launched in may and texas is an initial state. I thought gm was just doing a slow rollout of the spark ev like they did the volt, but maybe they won't really bring it here.

Chevy Spark EV is For West Coasters Only – Still No Plans to Expand Sales

That leaves honda and toyota, which only sell in carb states. Hyundai does not have a plug-in yet. These three companies are launching fuel cell vehicles in california within the next 2 years. They may have political reasons to not sell outside of carb states. This is strange since toyota initially talked about a national roll out by last year of at least the prius phv.

 

So far the Spark EV is still just California and Oregon.
The smart ED is just 13 or so states, but the site claims everywhere early 2014.

 

We have a number for smart ed here, and I have driven them as part of my car2go membership. They also have service (which they have to as part of car2go), but you might have to bring it in like the tesla from the internet, and not buy from a dealer lot. Car2go has special parking spots downtown. I can't see anyone really wanting this thing over a leaf, without the preferencial and free parking.

I corrected my post on the spark ev. I have no idea if gm will bring it outside of carb. The link I posted had many comments from people that thought they wouldn't.

 

Fiat 500e is a CA compliance car. Err... prototype? Highly doubt that.

A former coworker has one (don't know if he leased or bought) and one recently popped up at my work (I don't know him).

 

I realize I made a mistake re: Chargepoint. The Chargepoint EVSE handles at my work do have a hole as part of the release triggers, so a small padlock would fit.

However, would one have to be a major a-hole to use that on the free L2 EVSEs at my work since we're all about sharing and proper etiquette charging there.

On the note of charge rage, I'm not down in So Cal and hill might be able to better chime in on the current situation at Mitsubishi. There was a freeloading opportunist who'd leave their Volt there overnight and block spots.

My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - (Un)Official Mitsubishi (Cypress, CA) L3 Scheduling Thread
My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - (Un)Official Mitsubishi (Cypress, CA) L3 Scheduling Thread
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