Plug-In Hybrids; Ok as EV, Ok as Hybrid, "Half & Half"

Yep... and if one goes solar you can even lock in your own power supply for years, or even hope a bit or the rates to raise if you are grid connected and sell back at market rate during the day (more expensive) and buy at night (cheaper).


And its a double bonus that if one pumps some of that savings to buy renewable it can further reduce GHG. Though in my area is solar is not cost effective as buying "wind" is only .10 at night and right now (up from .059 last year) and I'd rather push for more wind since its a better match to EV charging at night. After a bit of lobbying, including constantly playing up the large number of voluntary purchasers of wind energy, the supplier to our co-op announced a 31MegaWatt upgrade to the wind farms that supply us. It did increase our base rates to have gas that can back-fill the wind, but we are still well below the national and state average so the price increases were considered acceptable.

The final bonus is nice it is to drive EV and how much fun the torque provides. Like many that have been driving EV, I'm not going back.

 

Musk is trying to differentiate. I can say that someone I know who owns a Volt and a Model S loves both cars. When he drives from San Diego to Los Angeles round trip he always takes the Volt because the Tesla does not have the range and who wants to deal with the super charger r battery swap it just creates a delay in the day

 

Most technologies follows an "S" shaped curve and there is every reason to believe that we're still in the lower part of the "S". Battery chemistries are variable and we're not seeing a consensus on the optimum electric-to-fuel ratio. Battery recharge by electrical remains time consuming and imposes a severe draw on grid sources if done during the day. Chemical recharge is the way to go but I'm not convinced hydrogen is a practical solution.

PV systems have become more practical although there are issues. The commercial "sell back" systems appear to prohibit independent operation of house power without the grid. In contrast, one home-brewed system I know of near Bountsville still faces a minimum monthly charge from the grid provider.

In terms of cart and horse, I would probably go with the horse first, the PV system. Given the proliferation of carts, there will be better choices including used ones in the future.

Bob Wilson

 

A 90-second battery swap 'creates a delay in the day'???????
Must be a very busy person

 

I suspect that was the "Beta" battery swap . . . not yet ready for prime time. <grins>

Bob Wilson

 

Of course, enjoying the following while getting a 45 minute supercharge should hardly inconvenience anyone.
This is a very REAL station
Oh, and it's not even 45 minutes: last I checked LA to San Diego was 121 miles, so the Model S should be able to do round trip with maybe a 20-30 minute top-off to relieve range-anxiety.

Los Angeles Supercharger | Tesla Motors

What's Nearby

Restrooms

Inside the Tesla Design Center (open until 6pm)
Wifi

Wifi password available to Tesla drivers inside the Design studio
Amenities

Wendy's
Starbucks
Quizno's
Waikiki Hawaiian Grill
Chili Verde
All on W 120th street, about 10-min walk (1/2 mile)

 

I posit the person JMD knows -with both a Volt & Tesla- wasn't doing their math homework.
You'd be crazy not to pick up a FREE charge at the Tesla station.
Even the lowest off-peak rate from your utility couldn't match that
Sorry, but I just don't see how the Volt is a cheaper car to use for a round-trip LA-SD journey.

 

Actually the Valley is more miles. You also have multiple stops. In the course of a typical business day driving to a Destination out of the way and hanging an hour for a charge or partaking in a battery swap is a big hassle. It is akin to an extra stop just eats valuable time in time crunched day. Much easier to take the Volt. That is how it was explained to me. Type A executive you know the type

 

Time is money. Most of us would rather pay for the gas and get home earlier. To get the charge you need to go out of your way and wait. Its not like the volt is a guzzler on that trip.

If all you have is the tesla though its not too bad to do the trip. If you have a choice you take the volt. If they put a swap station right on the way that is something different, but to not get charged you need to swap again to your old pack, which makes it a hassle.

 

Location is key, not doubt.
90 seconds on way into LA,
90 seconds on way out of LA
= not too bad

 

Nothing is 90 seconds in LA.

 

Ya, if its a business trip, timing is key.
A pleasure trip would be another question altogether.

On a side note, I wonder if Tesla will start offering solar panel roofing on their cars.
I think it would be great for the southwest part of the country.
I know it's not much (I think I did the math if my Gen 2 was covered in 20% eff PVs, and I'd get like 12 miles free a day, if parked in the sun all day in San Jose)
I know they are expensive, but I can't think how cool it would be -literally- to be running your A/C off the sun while you're stuck in those LA traffic jams or parked somewhere.

 

The swap itself is:

Something tells me this wouldn't vary based on the city the swap station is located in.
Traffic and getting there is another story, of course.

 

He said once 18 cars ahead of him in LA had to wait awhile. Tries to avoid public charging. I think it was a busy day. If it makes you late for a series of appointments you lose money, opportunity and credibility

 

It seems unfair to claim this is an acceptable, minor delay projected upon someone else's life and schedule. They may have priorities including alternate destinations that have to be visited. Somehow I suspect a Tesla owner would know the available facilities and business hours.

Bob Wilson

 

It's seems a little bad form for Musk to belittle Volt and Leaf designs/owners that gave him support for the NYTimes fiasco.

 

But this merely re-inforces the idea that we are going to be wedded to the ICE for a very, very long time to come. Might as well focus on PHEVs, since any alternative fueling paradigm will never do enough to alleviate the range anxiety of most people. Simply can't compete with the incumbency of gasoline.

Look, if someone decides they would rather take a Volt over a Model S on a particular trip, it's their prerogative. But this post is about Musk bad-mouthing the Volt. Clearly, if his 300-mile EV and network of superchargers is inadequate, then it's unlikely any other system (SAE combo, Hydrogen) will make much inroads anytime soon.

And yet there are those who believe 200/300 mile EV's + superchargers are all we need. Musk is one, as are many here. Toyota's FCV fantasy is even less credible.

 

Tesla has said solar roofs are a gimmick.

Does Car-Mounted Solar Make Sense? | MIT Technology Review
Unless you cover the hood too, you are likely looking at less than a kwh a day in the sun, in a 60kwh pack.
What is the potential of a solar panel on a Model S? | Forums | Tesla Motors

Why not just put the solar panels out on a building where they don't add weight, and can sit for 30 years;-)

 

First I would say the volt developers would probably agree with him. They ended up using the delta 2 platform, which is heavy, and not great for an electric car. They used an off the shelf engine which isn't great for a hybrid. Both were products of gm in the decent into bankruptcy. It isn't great at being an EV (and none of the current phevs are, but bmw might be better with the i3), and it isn't great as a hybrid. It does both well but not great. Let's face it, how many sub $40,000 cars are great, you know other than the prius I think most people think gm can do better in the next generation on a lighter platform, and with a engine designed for the car, and more marketing information from customers.

Leaf owners might be a little more upset, but generally agree with range, only 10% of california leaf buyers are satisfied with less than 10% range
Survey: To Be Satisfied, Electric Car Drivers Want 150 Miles of Range | PluginCars.com

Now on tone, Musk seems like an arogant p&*----- Billionaire CEO But compare him to someone like Lutz and he was positively complementary to the volt and leaf. Or say toyota's
Uchiyamada http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/04/Father-of-the-Prius-Declares-Electric-Cars-Not-Viable

 

A salesman, a business man, says something bad things about their competition? I'm shocked.

The Tesla vehicle trace did more than anything else. The NYTimes report soiled himself and his reputation but also ensured every car ever loaned to an auto writer in the future would have a working, GPS tracker with playback. I'm just waiting to see the first release of the Consumer Reports "track" record . . . or perhaps not.

Does anyone think Consumer Reports actually bought a $100,000 Tesla to test?

Bob Wilson