Planing CanView and BMS+ conversion with lithium

found the problem and in t he mean time shut closed one more oem relay!!!! GOTDAMMIDDDD for real!!!!!!!

so i am off and busy replacing yet another oem relay!!!

i am getting a routine at this hahahha

get back on what i found later! no time ;-)

 

Is it the same OEM relay that you had already replaced last time. You may need to find the root cause of these relay failures.

 

Possible cause will be an open/broken pre-charge resistor, that will make the contacts to weld themself. These are there for a reason...

 

fixed
the cause is that i have the EV200 contactors closed when i start the prius so there was arcing on the oem relays and so it welded

i found the problem with the red triangle and solving this i made the mistake of having the ev200 contactors still active when i started the prius.. my bad!

what happend is that i have a LED lilliput and connected to the 12 volt output of the canview
norm told me that was ok
it worked for years but i never needed the relays
i manual did ev mode and with Nimh you dont need the relay 4

when having the screen connected and the phev relay contacted and the ev relay the canview started to do strange stuff.

when i connected the lilliput screen direct to 12 volt the problem was gone.

i did 2 drives now and have not yet gotten the error.. so lets hope.

the prus relay only got a precharge on the PLUS relay the MINus relay is the one that welded for the second time!

 

You could have avoided all this by just using the Prius 12v ready signal

 

`where is that again?

 

The green wire at connector H16, #2.
Passenger side of the car. Remove the glove box to access.
Discussion found on priuschat thread
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...sion/86881-12v-source-only-in-ready-mode.html

 

contactor? oem relays?

 

a eric did not see your post.. Thx
lets cut some wire again

 

Mr Plug-in is referring to a 12V ready signal that is available in the HV battery compartment. I believe it is a yellow wire.

If you watch this video of a Enginer kit installation the technician points it out and is holding the ready wire.

http://www.enginer.us/img/EnginerPHEVInstallationGuide-Gen2Prius.wmv

But since your Canview relays are probably located at the front it would be a better idea to use the ready signal that is available inside the dashboard as described by Eric. I would still use a interface relay to drive the EV200 contactor as the ready signal is a low current (aprox. 200mA) drive according to pEEF.

In any case I would check that the wire is the ready signal with a multimeter, should only get a ready signal when you press the Prius power button whilst pressing the brake pedal at the same time. Should not get a signal when in accessory position by pressing the Prius power button one or twice without pressing the brake pedal at the same time. When it is in ready mode you will see the word "ready" light up on the dashboard instrumentation panel.

 

not really usefull its not a ready signal its the 12 volt going to the HV relays
this would mean my ev200 would be connected at the same time as the HV prius relays and dont think thats a good thing some arcing may still accur

--peef info

The battery contactors are driven by the HV ECU (to the right of the glovebox with grey connectors), which puts out a +12v signal. You could probably piggyback a small relay on this signal without trouble to get this signal. It's a Green Wire (pin #2) on Connector C/H16. (2nd one down from the top). I would not advise exceeding 100ma additional draw on this circuit. This is the same signal that seilerts describes above, but it is NOT the ready signal, it is the coil drive for the +HVB contactor. The actual "Ready" signal is not available as a signal, it's only on the CAN or BEAN bus. The DC-DC startup follows this contactor signal by about 150ms and upon shutdown the DC-DC stops 300ms before the contactor signal goes low, but this is the safest bet without adding a microcontroller to read one of the Busses. The other relatively simple thing you could do is not power up your load until you see a battery voltage over 13V. This would be a sure-fire indication that the DC-DC is online.


--
so best is to have a delayed relay on that 12 volt signal


and believe it or not but the errors are back again
i visited a car repair shop to have a toyota specific DTC readout and it came out clear
so no trouble there
anyway if i would have a real problem the red triangle would not go away! it would stay on! ( right? )
so i think there is a canbus problem causing this.. maybe my change of the 12 volt to the liliput screen was just that i touched the canview box and moved it around
i going to put the car in ready mode and wiggle the connected aroudn and see what happends

 

That is probably why you should use the Canview relay. I notice it has a time delay of Relay 4 after the ready signal. Not a smart idea to bypass these time delays.

 

when you have canview set to shutdown in like say 4 seconds and not 1 second
and you shutdown the car.. then start it up again ( to lets say test something connected to 12volt thats only there when the car is on )
the canview relay4 is still active its not based on the ready signal on the canbus
and this is what happend to me i have the canview set to more then 1 second and when i connected the lilliput screen to the 12 volt that only there when the car is on i shut down the car and then back on again to fast! the relay 4 was still active!

 

I think you are getting the Liliiput screen functionalities mixed up with the Canview functionality. They operate separately. When I start up the Prius the relay 4 comes on about a second or so after the ready signal. This is important.

I tried shutting down and startup again straight away and I could hear my EV200 contactor closing so this means that R4 opened as soon as I shutdown the Prius. I can hear my EV200 contactor open immediately after pressing the power button to shutdown the Prius.

 

go to setup of the canview and press the power button ;-)
you can set how many seconds it wil take for the canview to shutoff after you shutdown the prius
no mixup ;-)

 

I can hear my EV200 contactor open immediately as soon as I press the Prius power button to shut it down. It does not matter how long the Canview or the Lilliput screen stays powered on for after shutting down the Prius. The Prius 12v ready signal should shutdown immediately after pressing the Prius power button to shutdown the Prius. So even if the Relay 4 stays powered on or is welded closed it does not matter since the 12v ready signal has shutdown immediately.

If you set the time to zero seconds the Canview and Lilliput screen will just not shutdown at all after powering down the Prius. Then you have to shutdown the Lillyput screen manually by pressing the Lilliput power button or you may flatten the 12v battery. I would not think that the Canview would stay powered on indefinitely after powering down the Prius. Maybe the Canview will then be switched off when you manually switch off the Lillyput screen.

Does it make more sense now.

 

mine also shutdown when i power down the prius but thats not the problem at that moment your OEM and A123 are the same voltage
its when you power UP..
if you power up and the ev200 get a 12 volt and at the same time the canview is still ON it wil swithc the ev200 ON at the time you start the prius and thats to soon!
because at that moment your OEM is lower voltage ( or higher but dont think that wil happen a lot ) then you A123 and you will get sparks/welding

 

Not if the Canview has a time delay. R4 switches on after a time delay after the ready signal. Norm is no dummy. He designed it to do this. The time delay is so small you cannot notice it by hearing.
None of the other BMSplus users have complained about OEM HV battery relays being welded. Just you.

 

i am just trying to explain that IF ( like me ) you shutdown your prius and start it up again before the canview shutsdown, the relay 4 will still be active! ( and have the charger connected? OEPS )
this can happen if like me you have it set to 8 seconds or more and are trigger happy!
now i have it set to 1 sec and try to remind myself to take a moment before to press the start button again if i am testing something.

i did a 21km drive and no problems just yet
did not do anything beside place the bms+ away from the HV wires and also no longer along the ev200 switch wire
maybe there was some interference? have to see tomorrow again.

i also made a opening in my battery box so i will be able to suck air out off the box(es) to cool down in t he event i think it better to do so.

the cells got to 37 celsius when driving with a outside of 28 celsius