Planing CanView and BMS+ conversion with lithium

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by Mr-plugin, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. planetaire

    planetaire Plug in 20 kWh 85 km/h or > 208km range

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    Damned. The contactor is dead.

    Welding would say that you had a high amperage during opening or closing the N°3 main relay. So an important voltage difference between nimh and lithium ?

    Is it possible ?
     
  2. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    at the time is justed returned from driving my pack down.. so it was no higher or lower then nimh
    the litium pack was depleted.
    but then i did my canview relay 2 EV disenage mod and during that time the lituim could have gone up.
    and i did turn the prius on with the litium already connected ( you get a DTC that i cleared before when i forget ) and then turn prius in ready mode
    only this time i got this problem.

    i think its the mistake of having the litium pack manually connected for testing then turn the prius on instead of turn the prius on and then manual connect the pack.
    lett the prius oem contactors close and then close your ev200 whats normal but i did not have my ev200 connected yet and do a manual connect where in this case it was already connected
    i did make that mistake before but beside a DTC that i can clear there was no problem and in those cases i got the pack charged and not like now discharged.

    EDIT

    apartenly the prius got a turbo ;-)
    P00B0 : GenericType DTC Powertrain - Fuel and Air Metering - ISO/SAE Controlled
    Description
    Turbocharger/Supercharger Boost Control "B" Module Performance

    and for P0015
    "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded

    both are the cause of the relay stickking ( i hope )

    its also funny because this sticking makes the prius do strange stuff

    like when i shutdown the prius when i found out this dtc was set the ice spun up and then instead of just stopping it free wheelt in rpm down after i shut down the prius.
    maybe that because its in a safe state running a different software settings when a DTC like this one is set

    in a few hours i will now.. then i hope to have my new main relay in.

    EDIT

    i found these !!
    [​IMG]

    http://www.waffenschmiede.at/home/d...ypage_images.tpl&product_id=51&category_id=64

    and these
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    FIXED ;-)
    no more DTC

    now to get it all back together
     
  4. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    FWD made the mistake of letting one of the Prius SMR relays close under high current which led to the contacts being welded by the arking as they opened and closed. Probably several times. The Prius SMR relays are not designed for breaking high current under normal operation.
    Another safety is to use the Prius ready signal to the Canview relays and not the 12v accessories or permanent 12v signal. The ready signal comes on after all the relays have operated and NiMH is connected and the "ready" light comes on the dashboard. By using this ready signal it ensures that in the unlikely event of the Canview relay 4 sticking closed one of the Prius SMR relays will not weld as a result.
     
  5. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    pica's

    the broken one.

    i have to add that i do not yet have the ev 200 contactors connected
    this was during a manual by hand connect during testing.

    after serverel 100km testing with the A123 battery pack that i am going to rebuild in 5 boxes you can see that the pruis oem relay was not getting overheated.. it looks fine beside ofcourse the internal welding what was my fault.
     

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  6. Mr-plugin

    Mr-plugin Member

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    I use the Oem prius contactors and precharge resistor just as the oem pack. I do not allow the Bms or the Canview to break contact. If my alarm is starting to go off for low voltage I will pull over at the next available spot to disconnect the lithium pack only when at a stop in park so there is only 2-3 amps flowing. Other wise the they are wired in parallel and operate at the same time as the oem contactors.
     
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  7. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    so all this time you drive until your low voltage alarms go's off and then you pull over to by hand unplug the lithium pack? and drive on in normal hybrid mode?
    when it happend i was parked at home...
     
  8. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    I cannot see any evidence of contact weld ??? I cannot see in the photos where the contacts make and break the current. If your contacts did not weld then the relay may have mechanically jammed but this is very unlikely as these are automotive grade. I am sure it was caused by the loose nut behind the steering wheel (joke).
     
  9. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    haha its probably th lose nut in my head instead.
    the pictures do not show anything really just fun to show how it looks inside.
    i am unable to get the relay out of the housing more then on the pictures
    but looking with a screw driver it seems that the lower part is protected by some kind of whit silicon pasta/plastic where its not possible to open that instead of cutting tru it.

    EDIT

    i made a 1 hour and 25 min video of the replacement ( thats the total non stop video and so time it took me incl breaks for a cup of thee and a small thing to eat/snack)
    raw edited to 40min
    i hope i wil upload this one soon.
     
  10. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    Maybe something like this

    [​IMG]
     

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  11. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Ohhh, that's a beauty !!!
     
  12. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    :p nothing less then that :p
     
  13. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    NEWS about A123 cells

    A defect in A123 Systems' prismatic lithium ion cells can cause batteries to short out and prematurely fail. The company said it is confident that it has isolated the problem to a single automated welding machine at its Michigan plant, CEO David Vieau said during a conference call today.

    An incorrect calibration of one welding machine caused a misalignment of certain components in a battery cell. That misalignment can cause a break in the electrical insulation and a potential short, Vieau explained.

    Prismatic cells made in another location and cylindrical cells made at A123 Systems' manufacturing plant in China are not affected.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-57...lty-batteries/

    EDIT
    and intressing picture of a A123 pouch!
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    1 person likes this.
  15. NortTexSalv04Prius

    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    So you do not use the "tyco" style contactor on your PHEV?
     
  16. NortTexSalv04Prius

    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    Really 240 VDC is HV and Im searching google for DIY oh what else and "hybrid interface" okay.
     
  17. Mr-plugin

    Mr-plugin Member

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    No I do not. But the oem contactors are not made to switch off and on to break high current, so it depends on how the system is set up.
     
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  18. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    There is also a lot of info in this forum which is scattered if you take the time to read up. Using the advanced search function helps to find relevant info.
     
  19. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Lopez, I'm wandering, what's your estimated total add on weight in your conversion?
     
  20. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    did anyone look at the video or is it to long?
    maybe i do a 4x speed version ;-)