PiP Owners - Own Up: Out of Charge, AND Gas?

Why 'off to the dealer'?
Reset? Can those of us with Torque (or Scan Gauge or regular wired OBD II) do this 'reset'? Recharge is simply connecting a battery charger and fully charging the lead acid battery, correct?

 

Must be one of those 'special' error codes. Like Air Bag warning light error codes were on my '05 Hyundai XG350.

 

There is a low voltage cutoff for all the Toyota and Lexus hybrid batteries. Discharge below this and the special charger will be needed. You will also get the warranty frown from the service department as a battery abuser if it's because you ran out of gas. Could they make the yellow triangle warning any bigger? If the ICE or inverters quit, get a tow or some gas. See old Gen II inverter coolant pump failure threads for more PC user experience with dead hybrid batteries.

 

When I have discharged the battery in my other car to far, that my battery charger will not 'engage' to charge it, I have simply connected the dead cars battery via jumper cables to my other car's battery. This brings the voltage up. If there is any worry to the Prius' electronics of having car #2's engine running (after connection), just don't start the engine. The 'good ' battery will likely transfer enough juice to the 'too low voltage' Prius battery, to allow your trickle charger to charge it.

Are you saying that once the low voltage situation occurs, the code has been registered and the software now prevents the car from starting regardless that the lead acid 12v battery's state of charge has been brought back to the 12+ volt range?

 

they are talking about the hybrid battery, not the 12 volt.

 

For the 12V auxiliary battery, yes, just jump it until there is enough charge in it to fire up the electronics; no big deal. The nasty situation comes about when the traction battery state of charge gets too low, like from running with no gasoline. Then the only option there is to use the special charger that the dealer has, and pray that the battery is not ruined.

 

i'm not sure anyone has run out of gas in the pip. is there a post here somewhere? also, i'm not sure what would happen if you ran on ev until it quits, after running out of gas.

 

This is the surest way to ruin the traction battery. The reason that is the case is that when the car detects that the traction battery needs more charge it will try to start the ICE to charge the traction battery and the ICE will not start. It will then be possible to drag the charge of the traction battery down past the point of danger. Permanent damage is then possible. There will be no warranty claim paid for repair or replacement. It will be possible to detect that the traction battery has been abused in such a case.

DON'T DO THIS.

It is possible to get lucky and "dodge the bullet". However, the risk is really high.

 

can you point us to actual facts regarding this? this was not the case in my gen II, why would toyota go backward in a simple battery protection technology?

 

How was it different in the Gen II? Would it simply stop and refuse to take the battery down into the danger range? I had a Gen I before I got the PiP, but I never had the opportunity to test its behavior in this situation.

 

"Actual Facts", eh? Well, My first electric vehicle was in 2006 and I struggled with batteries for years. That was before the battery management systems of today. I learned that when a cell in a battery (each cell is individual) discharges past a certain point its polarity reverses and the positive pole becomes negative pole and visa versa. Efforts to charge that battery then magnify the difference between the cells and so you quickly get a battery which is working against itself. We can't see inside of a battery and so these things go on without our knowledge. Further, common battery testers test a collection of cells and so do not catch this difference between individual cells immediately. We only see that the battery is not functioning as it should and our efforts to cope usually make things worse. Toyota has a sophisticated battery management system to prevent that. By running out of gas and then draining the battery, we are working around this battery management system and preventing it from doing its job.

The key to all of this is that there is no such a thing as equality between cells. They all charge and discharge at slightly different rates. The difference in their capacity to hold and release a charge, therefore, is slightly magnified with each charge cycle. Again, battery management systems enter into the picture. They are designed to detect these emerging differences and correct for them. To a large extent, they work. This is all the more reason, not to interfere with the ability of the battery management systems while they do their jobs.

Batteries are not like gas tanks. They are actually quite sophisticated and rather delicate devices. They operate on one chemical reaction during the charge cycle and another during the draw down cycle. These chemical reactions are temperature sensitive which is why we get less range in the winter. Rather amazing things have been done to improve battery usefulness over the years, but faction batteries deserve and require respect.

If you do any research, you will find that what I am saying is correct. If you would rather not do any research and you do not believe me, try to run down your traction battery after you have run out of gas and see for yourself. It could be an expensive experiment. However, as I said, you might get lucky.

 

going by my own experience in my '08, i ran out of gas on the way home from work. then, i drove about a mile on what was left of the battery. then the car shut down and the dashboard lit up. i called triple a and they came and put in about 2 gallons. car started right up and 50, 000 miles later is just fine. i'm not sure what the 'danger range' is, but if it's so discharged that it can't start the ice, then no, it did not.

 

i don't doubt your facts regarding batteries in general, but it wouldn't be difficult to put in a failsafe to shut the car down at the point where it normally fire the ice for recharge. however, i'm not saying your wrong about the pip. absent of any toyota literature, i guess it's up to us to do the testing, as i did inadvertantly in my '08 as posted above.

 

i didn't make it thru all 700 pages. what page is that on?

 

I read where a lady fell out of a fifth story window and survived. Does that mean that it is safe to jump out of a fifth story window? Many people read Prius Chat for advice on how to use a Prius. Often they never post. Casting doubt on matter like this is not a service to them . It is not good practice to risk harm to this carefully designed and built car just because it might be possible. If it is truly is a matter of life and death to keep driving the car after running out of gasoline on what ever charge is remaining, it is probably worth the risk. This, however, is not s daily event.

Just stop and get gasoline when the "guess gauge" starts to flash. If you have charge left at that point, use it. There is no danger. There will still be enough gasoline to start the ICE if it is needed.

 

As you all know, Prius protects the battery from overcharging and overdischarging. It is maintained well under normal condition, which is why Prius battery is so reliable (unlike Honda IMA).

In the case of running out of gas, I think the car allow you do discharge lower than it normally allows. That means you are doing a deeper discharge and it'll affect (shorten) the battery life. It'll start back up but you don't know how much capacity you lost.

 

i'm not arguing the benefits of running out of gas, nor am i recommending it. i just haven't seen anything to back up some of the dire claims being made here. caution is the watchword, but i prefer to be informed rather than warned.