PDF file of the official CHP report on the Sikes affair

Your point? How would you distinguish the two from recorded sensor data? My point, which I think is clear from my post, is that you couldn't.

 

This is interesting. You mean this was a situation that the cruise system took over the throttle and the brake pedal were unable cancel it?

 

I suspect his point is that you can only infer that the accelerator was held down. The recorded data would look the same if gremlins decided to send a throttle open command. In other words, you can't say for sure that the driver was pressing the gas.

It sure looks that way, and that's what I would infer, but the evidence is not complete.

Tom

 

Sikes has said repeatedly that he's not interested in suing Toyota. That he only wants his car repaired/replaced.

Is this still the case? I can't help but think one needs to have a motive to commit a crime. Money is almost always the primary motive it seems. Has he and his attorney changed their tune yet?

 

Exactly. That's what I was inferring from my original post - that you could not tell the difference and that it *could* be a continuous pedal press.

Paul

 

Sikes comments do not indicate his thinking at the time. His motive was likely financial gain, but I suspect he changed his tune as his position became precarious. I suspect he will now be happy to escape prosecution.

Tom

 

Yes absolutely, this has been what I considered most likely from the start.

Ok, all total speculation of course, but this what I think is mostly likely the true situation regarding Sikes.

1. He's something of a gambler and risk taker.

2. In financial trouble will try anything for a quick buck. Insurance fraud, games shows, whatever.

3. Probably genuinely believed all the media hype leading up to his incident. Probably thought that all the reported incidents were true and that any day now someone is going to find the "real problem that Toyota had been covering up" and then big money was going to start to fly in law suites.

4. Probably wasn't totally sure about how it was going to play out but wanted to ensure that if this Toyota money really starts to flow then he will be a part of it. He wants in on the grift.

5. What better way to achieve this than to be a high profile runaway case, complete with 911 call and media coverage etc.

That's how I think it originally unfolded. What I think then happened is that Sikes was taken completely by surprise by the amount of scepticism of his account. I think he was so sure that all this Toyota hype was real that he actually thought that no one would doubt him.

Of course we all know what happened next. People did very much doubt his credibility, even from very early on. Then things only got worse when people start investigating his background and very soon the heat is really on so he goes to ground. That's the sequence of events that I think is most likely.

 

No, the HSD system control computer was "STUCK" continuously executing the "set/accel" function/mode, always driving the front wheels, ACCELERATING, therefore it could NEVER provide regen braking.

That left two possible ways for Sikes to apply braking, frictional/hydraulic, which is solely under the control of the skid control computer, or/and the e-brake.

The skid control computer will not allow any master cylinder brake fluid pressure to be "ported" to the individual brake calipers without "permission" from the HSD system control computer.

So it remains a bit of a puzzle as to how Sikes was able to apply any frictional braking at all other than via the e-brake.

I could well imagine some sort of override, firmware or mechanical, for the skid control computer's frictional/hydraulic side, maybe 20-30% braking by override default.

 

I wonder if this guy needs to get a Sike(s) evaluation for mental stability?

 

Oh, maybe I see...

Regenerative braking ONLY applys to the FRONT WHEELS...!!

With the level of braking that Sikes was asking for, SEVERE braking, the skid control computer might well have automatically defaulted into applying FULL hydraulic braking capability to the REAR wheels while braking of the front wheels is left to regen braking.

In that case the ABS, Anti-lock Braking system would have been seriously LIMITING the rear braking in order to keep the rotating rate of the rear wheels more roughly equal to the UNBRAKING/ACCELERATING front wheels.

 

You've said this twice on the thread.. do you have anything to backup this claim?

 

I agree. I am sure that there was a lot of planning here. I suspect his physical responses were manipulated too. Don't take your meds for a couple days and your BP and P are elevated, stress from doing something stupid. I don't think he is enjoying his 15 minutes of fame.

 

Here is what I have a hard time understanding. The Prius is light. Very Light. It has minimal horsepower. The brakes were obviously engaging, otherwise they wouldn't have worn down, and you can't escape physics that the brakes on this vehicle will slow the car down to a stop even if the brake override system somehow failed to disengage the throttle.

It wasn't until the CHP got in front of this guy where he may have to collide with the CHP vehicle did this Sikes individual decide that he didn't want to try and pull off that car stunt. Then miraculously the brakes started to work. As for his demeanor? The Oscar goes to:......

 

It's not that light. Certainly not VERY light. It's heavier than most non-hybrid sedans
But your still right.

20 minutes of ignoring the cop's direction to put it in nuetral is damning enough. His excuse for not doing so was incredibly feeble.

 

Yeah it was a pretty good performance wasn't it. I like your point about him being unable to stop it for over 20 minutes and then all of a sudden when it came down to the possibility of a real collision with the cop car he manages to miraculously stop. Actually I think the cop was pretty brave given that he was prepared to attempt that manoeuvre to save Sikes skin. I don't think the cops were in on any scam here, I think they were genuinely misled.

The other Oscar winning performance was when he finally had to stop in view of the cop and he raised his whole body up as if to be literally standing on the brake. If you actually try that you'll realize it's stupid. You get just as much force and much better control by staying firmly seated and pushing hard back into the seat. It's just not quite as theatrical that's all.

 

I have doubts that toyota logs an error code if throttle setting is different than pedal position, so we may never get this evidence. Can someone more familiar with the prius error codes confirm this?

I would say it is a purely a matter of marketing spin that the system in the 2008 prius is a brake overide system in the same sense as other manufacturers. It appears to be a protection system for hsd components against real driver inputs. That said even this "override" should provide enough safety for a competent driver do the utmost to stop.

Designing a brake override system should be sensitive. In a non-turbocharged CVT situation the only time braking and acceleration are at needed at the same time is to avoid rolling backward on a hill. For this reason above a minimum speed, at any braking, acceleration through the engine should stop. Forced regen is a feature that really should not be controlled by combined brake and throttle if safety is a high concern.

 

This scenario is highly unlikely. For this to happen, several ECUs must continue to operate, but in a confused state, providing some functionality, but allowing odd things to happen elsewhere. For obvious reasons, ECUs are designed to *not* let this happen. They are designed to work, or fail into a safe mode, not run halfway.

Tom

 

"..posture...theatrical..."

Funny, I can't really be certain but I suspect that to be exactly the posture my body assumed a few years ago driving our 28' Ford E350 MH when 3 deer ran out in front of me just after dusk.

 

Why not tell that "story" to the owners of the 2010 Prius that is under recall due to a totally unpredictable braking "GAP".