Opposition to Prius - Why?

My car prior to my Prius was an Explorer. I have to admit that if I could buy a new Explorer (with everything my old Explorer had) for the same price I paid for my Prius AND get 50 MPG, I would have bought the Explorer without even thinking about it. The biggest reason is that I would sit higher, so that I could see better (I stand 5'2"). Plus, the amount of stuff I could pack into the Explorer was large. But my old Explorer got 15 MPG, and that wasn't cutting it.

I also think comparing a lower cost vehicle to a Prius is valid because the question is whether I'm getting value for "similar" body types. I think to justify the amount of money being spent, you can compare what you would be getting in a similarly priced car. However, comparing a Prius to a Tahoe doesn't make much sense to me. They are completely different cars for almost completely different purposes.

Dumb Mike

 

Nice, fun to drive, bonus points.

 

I would bore you to sleep if I started telling the all the ways I personally see value in using less fuel, unrelated to money savings from fuel.

I was just trying to explain Joe the plumber

 

That would be true in a rational world. Where I live both cars carry out 'burbs duty.

 

You might as well ask why if you believe in Global warming and You want to do something to change the general direction of the planet YOU MUST BE A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT...Don't gun toting, bible thumping, heterosexual Republicans also love the trees and the bunnies (even if they just want to shoot them?).

Why does green have to equal one political ideal or another? To me its like saying I'm in favor of being alive so therefore I must be a Pick one (Democrat or Republican).

Here in Orlando I drive a Prius so I must be a Liberal Democrat. Too bad I say that Prius Green / love planet puts me in a political category. I know plenty of Conservative Republicans who also love the planet too.

 

I have to disagree with what you say for primarily 2 reasons.

1) Larger doesn't mean the vehicle must be more expensive. It's been shown time and again that it costs no more money to produce a large vehicle like the Tahoo or Suburban than it does a small commuter car. But for some reason, they sell for a lot more money. That is why GM, Chrysler, and Ford love making them so much. So when I see a large vehicle I do not equate size with value.

2) I'd be okay with your argument about the SUV being able to do things that the Prius cannot, as long as the owner of such a vehicle actually uses it for those things. For example, if I see somebody towing a boat around in a Tahoe, then I'm okay with that. If I see a suburban hauling around 6 people inside of it, I'm okay with that too. But where I live, 99% of the time, these large vehicles are used in place of commuter cars to go to work, church, and the grocery store.

 

The real problem is "Car Culture"

People don't like being told what to wear....People don't like being told where to live...People don't like being told what to drive.

Just as what you wear and where you live defines you...What you drive like it or not does as well.

Until big/suv/power/musclecar goes out-of-fashion...people will crave the drive.

Prius drivers represent a car fashion subculture with the mini and the smart car drivers. We are not Yaris / Versa / XA small cheap car drivers...obviously we have some money...but we are definitly defined by our vehicles...

Fashion is passion and everything has its season. I think small quick sporty cars will make a big comeback (remember MR2 and Mazda Miata). Pay attention to who is trying to make big and powerful cool...

 

Actually, I agree with you and/or you agree with me. I don't think we have differing positions. Except I think there are some misunderstandings:

As far as your respone on #1, the poster said we should be comparing a Prius to a Tahoe because of similar price, not to a car with a similar body style (I inserted the Honda Fit). I'm kinda confused how your response disagrees with mine.

And on #2, I drove to work with my Explorer and it was very uneconomical. I fit into the wrongful use of a large car that you stated. So, I bought a Prius. But the poster's statement that even if the Prius and Tahoe had similar MPG, he'd still buy the Prius. My statments were based on the premise that if they has similar MPG, I would rather drive the Explorer. Your stated objection was that people drive the gas guzzlers instead of the commuter car to do these various tasks. I think your objection was premised on the fact that the Tahoe/Explorer has a much lower MPG than the Prius. That's the wrong premise. Would you have the same objection if the MPGs were similar (like the poster and I stated)?

Dumb Mike

 

As simple as it sounds, it's true: Haters gonna hate. Don't listen to the FUD.

 

Actually, the original posted you are talking about was me. I'm the one that said that. Yes, I think the Prius is 100 times better vehicle for a variety of other reasons besides fuel economy.

1) The Prius is far more technologically advanced.
2) The Prius is more stylish (in my opinion)
3) The Prius is smaller, which is a big plus for me. I hate unnecessarily large vehicles because they hog up the road, I can't see over them when they pull up next to me at an intersection so I can't pull into traffic until they move so I can see oncoming traffic, and they tend to make accidents more serious when they collide with something.

The explorer isn't quite as bad as vehicles like the Tahoe, Excursion, Escalade, Suburban, Yukon, Hummer, Expidition, and others.. Same with big old pickup trucks. Those are the types of vehicles I really hate.

 

Reasonable Expectations

I think the issue is even more fundamental.
People just don't like to be told how to spend their money.

I suspect that we all know someone who spends "a lot of money" --
that is more than we would --

on personal appearance and adornment...
on household furnishings...
on their yard and landscaping...
on travel...
on "going out"...
on entertainment (concerts, opera, sports, gambling, etc)...
on being on the leading edge of anything...
and yes, on their choice of vehicle to drive.

From an outside perspective, the economics of these choices can seem
sketchy at best.

In each case,
* the person believes the way they spend their money confers status,
prominence, a feeling of personal well being, or at the ugly end of
things, a feeling of "better than you" and/or "holier than thou."
* the person is part of a group -- real or virtual --, culture or sub-
culture that values the same thing(s), although not always for the same
reasons.
* the person will make a vigorous defense of their choices, even to the
extent of preemptive attacks on the reasonability, validity, or
sensibility of some else's choice if it is different than their own.

The bottom line? There is no reason to expect our personal choices in
the areas cited above to be met with universal approval. (However, it is
a good idea that they confer some benefit, real or imagined, on your
family members.)

You will or did buy a Prius, for a number of reasons, both objective and
subjective, important only to you. So what does it matter that
somebody else doesn't or can't understand and applaud your choice.

To expect otherwise would be unreasonable, naive even.

 

Rokeby,
Nice post, but I think it glosses over an important point: the effect of these different choices on our neighbors, community, country and planet vary.

Despite pop culture's refrain, it is NOT always about "me."

 

Reasonable Expectations

I agree entirely.

I was thinking about how to consider criticisms of the purchase of the car
to drive.

Beyond that there are much larger issues about the long-term soundness,
morality even, of the choices we make.

This hardly ever is a notable feature of the typical "Why you shouldn't buy
a Prius" arguments.

 

It has? That's not my understanding given similar complexity, quality, and production run.

 

The reactions to the Prius concern me at a higher level, because the same kind of "reasoning" increasingly is applied to everything else. Instead of having an honest discussion, play on emotions, prejudices, and make up rubbish. For example, Pres. Obama is a closet Muslim without US citizenship that is going to set up "Death Panels" in his health care plan. For the record, I did not vote for him, but the party I've used to vote with a straight ticket I leave blank half the time, but can't quite vote for the other side.

Help me on this quote: but didn't James Madison say "Self-government without self-discipline won't work?"

I'm not too optimistic about America when special interests have the upper hand, the general public is going to ignore issues like Social Security, energy, environment, personal/national debt, and so on until it's a crisis with as many options as Stage Four cancer.

I don't see much discussion - I see Jerry Springer Show spitting matches...that's not how democracy works.

 

P-Chatters take a lively interest in this question. If you look at the thread:

http://priuschat.com/forums/generation-1-prius-discussion/84017-nhw11-traction-battery-autopsy.html

You will find a gentleman who is tearing down a Gen I battery into very small pieces, and documenting the condition of each piece as he goes along. P-Chatters like these cars as a whole, but are not at all shy speaking up about problems.

Toyota is now on, I think it's the third generation, of the traction batteries. They have been in service in North America for ten years now, longer in Japan. There are something like a million Pri out there in the wild. If there was a short life problem we here would know about it, and you would see irate threads detailing the problem.

There are a few reports of individual cars that have a problem, the same as with any machine, however they are seen as rare, and if the car is newish, they're under warranty.

 

While I drive a 2000 Insight, the general public reacts as if it was a Prius.

I've concluded a good part of this hostility is defensiveness that says more about them than the Prius drivers they bash.

I don't really see a lot of Prius drivers trying to cajole others into buying one.

It reminds me a lot of high school when the wild guys were harassing the preacher's kids (or someone else obviously religious)....they probably were not passing tracts, proselytize, or commenting on their worldly lifestyle...just the presence of someone that is clearly not into drinking and getting laid makes them uncomfortable....their real objection to the straight-laced guy is he's not joining them in their wild parties. In other words, it's the haters, not the Prius drivers that are insisting "you gotta be like us"

 

I give you #1, because I think it's true. But your statement was that if the Prius and the Tahoe had equal gas milage, you'd still buy the Prius. I also give you that. I only said that I'd stick with my Explorer if they got the same gas milage.

#2 is your opinion, which I also give you. My girlfriend said she didn't like the looks of the Prius. I bought it anyway. Shows you how much I listen to her.

#3 is also your opinion, which I also give you. But for me, being short, I like a car in which I sit higher so that I can see easier. But if you take all of the other large cars off the road, then I wouldn't have to sit so high. I still bought a Prius.

Mike

 

My personal discord with the old and new Prius and Toyota does not stem from driver's apparently doing 50 mph in carpool lanes (I never see that), or apparent smugness. It has something to do with some of the negative professional reviews of the car(s).

But, mostly, it has to do with Toyota's lack of attention to design detail in some of their cars. I understand the Prius is a purpose built car for max fuel economy, 50 MPG and that they put max effort in to the drive train.

But to see the 2010+ Prius' door armrests too low for any use, the steering wheel clearly left of center of the seat to my eyes, these are deal breakers. Many forgive these things, I'll check them again in 5 years.

The Venza - big car. 3,800 lbs, mid to full size. Power driver's seat.

Toyota failed to make the Venza driver's seat lower enough to get good sightlines out the windshield - I would see the sun visors instead of traffic lights, and would be ducking down a lot. 6'2" is tall, but not very tall. I have better sightlines in a Mazda3 compact than a Toyota Venza. Ouch.

I don't just rant here on Priuschat. I call these things into corporate to forward to Toyota Japan engineering.

I look at other brands - Honda, Mazda, VW, Ford, but don't see anything worth taking the loss to upgrade to, so that says something.

Toyota needs to improve their interior designs in my opinion.

 

Like you, I did massive research before making the leap. I have owned Chevys, still have a Ford Explorer, Chrysler, Jeep, and BMWs. When I bought my first used Toyota, a 2003 Corolla, I had a ahah moment. Finally a reliable solid car. In December I special ordered a 2010 Black Prius V with ATP and loaded it with everything including a dual exhaust pipe and a 4X4 badge from a Tundra just to get the Dodge Ram crowd to scratch their heads. This is car is absolutely amazing. My co-workers love riding in it. My friends want to drive it home. But I still get the uneducated who ask, how fast can you go? Isn't it an underpowered economy car? A engineer has got it to 120 MPH on the Autobahn in Germany. It has very fast pickup. With 17 inch wheels, great cornering, a really good feel to it. My dentist drove it and said it drives as good as her Lexus. But I get 50 MPG. Everyone is amazed at the amount of room in the Gen III. Test drive them, and ask other Prius owners what they think of their cars. Ignore the negatives from the non-owners. Rent one and take it on a long trip and miss all the gas stations you used to pull into.
My wife and I love it so much, we are bying another one next year, probably used Barcelona red.