Opinions, please: quality of Prius II's stereo?

Yup, you can improve on the JBL for sure...but it won't be cheap!

 

Geo Geek,

Are you planning to take signals from the head unit or from the speaker level output from the JBL Amp. I was wondering cause I wanted to do that for another friend with a Prius V that needs to keep his OEM Nav. I have been able to grab the signal output from Infiniti Bose system for cars like the M45 and the G37 but have not tinkered with the JBL amps in the Prius yet.

I have to agree the tonal quality is very much lacking and to tell you the truth I prefer dynamic range and tonal quality over imaging in the car.

 

I was planning on taking the hi-level outputs from the amp (all eight of them) and feeding them into the hi-level inputs of the MS-8. The MS-8 will do all of the summing & de-eq'ing first and then re-shape the sound based on the response my after market amp & speakers give. The signal coming from the JBL head unit to the OEM amp is (as I understand it) digital....there's like one left signal wire, one right signal wire and some kind volume up/down and mute command wires. There's also brake & speed sensor wires and some complex processing that deals with incoming phone call audio & muting along with issuing voice prompts from the GPS navigation system. There may be some way to tap into that mess, but I figured the simplest way was to just leave the factory amp and take the hi-level as input to a pre-amp. I looked at the CleanSweep but it just gives you a flat signal to work with; I looked at the Audio Control DQL-8 and the Audison Bit One, but both of those require a RTA and some good tuning skills to get dialed-in. The MS-8 is the best fit because it has the AutoTune function to set the time alignment and EQ setting.

 

For me, this takes too much work and investment...and in a not-Lexus-quiet car like the Prius, there is the law of diminishing returns. I would say that if you are really looking into something high end, then you need a better environment to put it in so that you can see some return for what you put in. In other words, i would get a Lexus vehicle (the higher end the better)...or something like the Avalon. I told my wife already...my goal in the future is to get a Lexus LS with the Mark Levinson Reference system...that way, i don't need to "tinker" too much to get good sound. My tinkering days are in the past...my days of door rattles after taking it apart is gone.

 

When stationary, most OEM stereos may lead you to believe the tonal range down low is fine - that was my case with the JBL and II system. However, when driving around, any extra oomph from the JBL was washed out with road noise. That is why a dedicated subwoofer with some power behind it is essential. Trying to hear some bass from the JBL (and the base II of course) over road noise resulted in cranking the bass up excessively and leading to a lot of distortion.

Mid range tonal quality and "imaging" were identical to me between the two systems. Higher range was solved in the front seats by replacing the sqawker with a nicer unit.

Here is a realtime analyzer test I did on my commute. Gas and electric motors were running, and the car was going 55MPH on a level asphalt road. OEM Prius II Yokohama tires.

This was taken with a calibrated microphone and some very expensive recording/processing equipment. Here is the resulting FFT - notice how the road/tire noise is loudest by almost 30dB around 30Hz to around 200Hz?

That's why I think some users' claim of the JBL producing audible low frequencies near 30Hz is a joke - you won't hear them at all when driving

This is just a snapshot....



Taken from this 10 second period:



Notice a few spikes in the 300-400Hz range? That's where I drove over three expansion joints

Dave

 

And this is why there is ASL...to help compensate for road noise as speed increases....

As for not being able to tell the difference b/w JBL and II and midrange and up...i don't know what else to say about your hearing!! Imaging should definitely be different simply because the II stereo plays midrange through the door woofers...the JBL does not.

If you read into the concept of distributed subwoofer system, then you understand JBL's concept. Of course, a dedicated subwoofer will be nice, but that creates cargo space issues (& weight) and more $$$$...and yup, more tuning issues (see my old post below).

4 small subwoofers can displace similar amount of air as a big subwoofer. A big subwoofer's main advantage is that it can play to a lower Hz, but this is of lesser importance in a car music system...why? See my next post. In fact, one can argue that a small subwoofer is more "musical" than a big subwoofer because it can respond quicker to notes and recover quicker!! Now, if you're into watching movies in the car, then yeah, i guess a 15" subwoofer will be better....

 

Old post by me:

Here is an excerpt: "The lowest octave that can be heard (20Hz to 40Hz) virtually has no energy in most music. The lowest note on a bass has a fundamental frequency of about 41 Hz. So this first octave contains such things a "room rumble" and the lowest notes of a pipe organ. The second octave (40 Hz to 80Hz) contains the fundamental frequencies of the low bass notes and the Kick drum. So this is the first octave we are really concerned with, unless we are reproducing earthquakes and the like."

So, does a car audio subwoofer really need to hit below 40 Hz? Nope. This is why i said that a movie theater needs a good subwoofer, but not necessarily a car system. In a car, all you really need is a good (sub)woofer that can hit 40-80Hz well. I am sure that most car systems probably won't go down past 50 Hz well, but it sounds just fine for 95% of music out there. A lot of the aftermarket folks (like some here) love to mention how low their subs can go and how much it enhances the music...i chuckle every single time.

A sub can be localized, regardless of the crossover point, if it causes nearby objects in the room to resonate or if the volume is not matched to that of the main speakers. The key to integration is setting phase and matching volume. In a car, bass integration is quite a challenge because it is not easy to move around speakers and there are too many variables (glass area, cloths, etc.). (And even in home theater setups, the subwoofer is ideally placed up front where the main speakers are.)

 

Hi Thai !

Just reread one of these posts and saw where you asked for my list. Here's what I used.

4 Pioneer TSA1673 speakers ($100 including brackets and wiring harnesses)
Clarion CZ500 BT head unit ($120 including dash kit and wiring harnesses)
Boston Acoustics 504 4 channel Amp ($105)
Amp wiring kit and extra phono cables ($25 + $8)
Peel and Seal roofing (sound deadener) ($20)

Total = $378.00

It's like a different car .....

REV

 

Ok, where is the bass going to come from?? How much cargo space/energy/weight is going to be wasted?

And now, how are you going to tune it? What is that Pioneer speaker? I googled it and i got a 6.5" 3-way coaxial?? Ok...are you going to keep the squawkers in the dash up front? If not, then all your sound is coming at feet level? If you're using the squawkers, then you will have one hell of a time tuning it!! A mess i think...you have midrange and up firing from the windshield...you have high frequency and midrange firing at your feet...all of which are very directional sound...all coming to your ears at totally different time...and from very different direction and source.

Nice amp...but without DSP or any sort of tuning, i am afraid that your sound field will be all over the place with crashing frequencies....

(And as noted previously, my previous aftermarket system in my Corolla is quite nice on paper (Infinity true components, JL Audio 300/4, etc.), but it sounds crappy next to the Prius JBL...so, nice parts don't always add up....)

 

I read your post again and found this rather amusing. Why is it that some of us consumers always assume that the manufacturer of a product is ignorant??? And this is you proclaiming such "facts" after listening to the JBL system using FM radio!! I am no audiophile (just pretending to be one!), but i think that is just mind boggling to come to such conclusion listening to a notoriously bad source (FM radio in a Prius no less!!). It is like me telling my friend that Toyota designed the Prius hybrid system all wrong...that they did not know how to even plug in a vacuum cleaner much less design a hybrid system!

As written above, the JBL engineers did indeed do their homework with each car that carries their name...and no two model has the same components because no two models have the same interior dimensions and materials. Although the Camry and Prius JBL systems share some parts, there are significant differences. The same goes for my Sienna minivan vs. a Toyota Land Cruiser. No two Toyota cars have the exact same JBL system.

Sure, the components are not all that fancy, but they are not bad either...neodymium magnets all around, steel frame, polypropylene woofer with metal infused for strength, and a true DSP amplifier with multiple individual channels controlling EACH speaker. All for $1000 (including bluetooth).

 

i dont wanna add an amp to the car, but upgraded the head unit to the rosen nav which is 25rms/ 45peak output.

would it be worth upgrading the speakers at least with some decent 3-ways? or should i not bother. i dont want to add an amp if i dont have to, and if the sound isnt going to improve by much without an amp, id rather not bother all together

 

:rofl:Rev, you saw that comming.

 

The speakers are 3 ways not coaxials, and the bass comes from the 6.5's the same as it would in any other system without a subwoofer. The sqauwers still are active, and futher tuning is unnecessary ... I listen to my music 'flat', the way it was intended to be reproduced. It's clean, well defined, and can play at some incredible sound pressure levels with zero distortion.

Granted, FM isn't the greatest source, but it was THE SAME SOURCE for the comparison. You are so hung up on this 'tuning' thing, and DSP, and such, you've forgotten how to just listen to the music, and if it satisfies you, be happy.

I've said before, I'm glad you like your JBL system ... why can't you just go with that. Trust me ... there's not a REAL audiophile on the planet who will agree with your assessment of the factory Prius JBL system. I'd say probably 7 out of 10 people here think the JBL system is not worth it, which is why there are so many threads of people looking to upgrade it, or wishing they had bought a II just so they didn't have to deal with it. The Toyota JBL system (like any other part) is built to meet Toyota's contracted price point with JBL ... nothing more .... nothing less, which is probably about 1/3 of the cost of the upgrade cost on the sticker.

I wish you were nearby to experience my system. It's quite outstanding.

REV

 

Yeah ...I like going back and forth with Thai ... all's well !

He's got some good opinions and ideas, as do the rest of us.

REV

 

Absolutely ... the speakers are the final transducer in any audio system, and are the most important part of a good system. The factory speakers are ridiculously bad. Do the speakers, and see what you think.

It's not as hard as you think to add an amp, especially with the battery in the rear ... no messing around with firewall grommets and such.

REV

 

3-ways? They seem to be 3-way coaxials to me...meaning...you have one channel going to the speaker...the speaker has a woofer, a "midrange," and a tweeter all in one package. There is no dedicated crossover to separate the individual components.

This is your speaker, right?

That is a coaxial...a 3-way coaxial.

This is a true 3-way speaker (Dynaudio):

And because it is a coaxial, the woofer is not made for low bass...and does not get a dedicated amplifier channel to provide enough power to make low bass.

 

I believe they're called triaxials, coaxials are generally woofer and tweeter, where 3 ways or triaxials are woofer mid and tweet ... at least that's the way they used to be designated. Maybe they've changed and now they're called 3 way coaxials ... I'll take your word for that if that's the case.

Either way ... they're 3 ways, and given enough power, they reproduce bass down to I think it's 20 hZ, if I remember correctly ... although I don't really believe that. They sound just fine ... very tight bass which is what I like ,,, not boomy at all.

Correct ... no crossover ...

REV

 

Pics here ...

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...1731-few-pics-inexpensive-stereo-upgrade.html

 

Yup, triaxial is a better name...you're right.

I would really be interested in your opinion about your system vs. JBL. I would just go to a local Toyota dealership and take a good CD with you...and try out the JBL system. It may not be your taste, but it may be worth a try just for fun.

Remember to test the system while park and while driving...i would just put FLAT settings with ASL ON.

 

I'll try to do that and let you know. As you know, it's best to do an A/B test of systems or transducers one after the other, if the optimum A/B switchable isn't possible. I do know that my system is considerably more powerful than the JBL. One thing that I faulted the JBL for was being underpowered, IMO.

REV