Operation Volvo Seats In A Prius Part 2

All valid points I suppose but here are my thoughts.

It's either find a way to make my Prius more comfortable or I have to get another car as this one is much to painful to drive long distances or even across town. I have a sensitive butt what can I say?

I was in the legal field for a short time also and I can assure you that insurance companies will deny coverage for anything and in the case of Farmers Insurance back in the early 90's it was common practice to deny coverage in almost every case when first submitted (Fresno County, CA) so they really don't need an excuse to deny coverage.

The insurance company must have some valid reasons and facts as to why the coverage was denied and in CA at least they can only deny coverage to the extent that your action negligent or otherwise contributed to the injury. In other words if it's just an accident that damages the car they can't deny coverage because you installed different seats unless they can prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the seat caused the accident or contributed to the accident/damage. In this case they would not have to pay extra to have the airbag reinstalled so that will be hard row to hoe in front of a judge. If their contention is that the extent of injury would be less then they have to prove that contention since they are usually only responsible for what 5 or 10 thousand anyway it wouldn't be worth their time and bad PR. Remember after that amount and the deductible it's your medical insurance that takes over and pays the rest.

They would also have to explain why they would cover someone in a Prius that does not have the SRS system (package #3 and under for the 2006 model year I believe) and not someone that has the SRS system but disabled one portion of it or the whole thing. BTW call your insurance company and ask them how it affects coverage if you modify/customize your automobile (done all the time everywhere, i.e. lowriders) the most they can do is charge you a little extra each month because after all they insure plenty of cars that don't have SRS including the Prius. How can they deny coverage to you?

This isn't an extensive list just my thoughts at the spur of the moment. But the last thing I would like to point out is that the only thing being affected in this whole operation as far as the SRS is concerned is the "seat position sensor" which tells the SRS system to deploy in one of two different stages. It does not stop the system from deploying it just a simple sensor that tells the airbag system where the seat is position. I believe that it can be transferred from the Prius seat to the Volvo seat if desired. The only other part is a weight sensor in the passenger seat which disables the SRS if less than sixty pounds is in the front seat, the Volvo has the same sensor. I'm awaiting word from Toyota if these systems are compatible, something tells me I have a long wait ahead of me.

Bottom line is that insurance companies can deny coverage for anything. But if they do they have to prove that the denial is somehow based upon the modification causing or contributing to damage to the automobile if no injury is involved. If injury is involved then if coverage is denied they have to show that the modifications to the seat resulted in all of the injury to the plaintiff, that's a bit of a stretch eh? Then they would have to explain why they would cover someone injured in the exact same automobile but without the optional SRS system (side airbags, front are mandatory) but deny coverage to a similar automobile that merely had the side airbag system disabled. If the argument is simply the cost of the policy the court will simply have the arrearage in policy payments deducted from the award. Remember they can reduce the damages award if they can prove that the injuries would be less sevre if the SRS had not been modified. Fact's like these are extremely hard and expensive to prove in court and must be based upon facts (at least most of the time) and not conjecture by expert witnesses. $$$

Don't forget airbags standards (I believe) are for an average adult man of 5' 9" male average weight and a 30 mph collision. Anything outside of those parameters and the insurance company is going to have a hard time making it's case because there are just no studies or data covering injuries outside those parameters and anything over the policy limits is covered by your medical insurance anyway.

Does that help?

Wildkow

p.s. I just whacked this out and didn't proof read or research for legal mistakes but I suspect I'm at least 90%+ correct if not 100% correct in these statements.

 

Hey dwreed3rd

Almost forgot to say howdy and I hope you really really enjoy your Prius. Here's hoping that your butt likes the front seats and you don't have to make this seat change! ray: I also forgot to answer the other part of your concern in the insurance post above concerning warranty. It stands to reason that Toyota will not cover the Volvo seats for any kind of damage or manufacturer defect. But that being said just like in the insurance post above if they deny other warranty problems then they have to show some casual connection between the denial of coverage and the Volvo seats.

Hypothetical: the car catches fire and that fire is traced to the electrical system. If Toyota says sorry no warranty coverage because you changed the seats, which involved changes to the electrical system. Then Toyota would have to show that those changes actually caused the fire. They can't just make the argument and deny coverage without some basis. If the fire started under the seat then they have a good argument but not an ironclad one. If it started elsewhere then you have a pretty good defense but once again not and ironclad one. In either case don't expect Toyota to get you another set of Volvo seats or install them but with a little bit of persuasion/threats you may get money damages for the loss of those seats.

So I hope that helps and give us a shout out when you get delivery, but don't expect to get away without supplying some pics of the new baby!

Wildkow

 

Sorry I haven't been working on this lately because 1) busy (weak) and 2) waiting to pickup two Prius seats w/airbags for $100.

Now that I have them I can get to work. Your thoughts on removing airbags and all sensors from Prius seats and installing them into the Volvo seats?

Wildkow

p.s. hehe check this out . . .

 

Let me know what you need and I will see if I can get it for you. I won't DL the whole thing but if you have a specific question, I have a month subscription, and will gladly try to look it up for you.

Wildkow

 

Crash test of Volvo S60. I don't know but to me during the front shot of the side impact it looks like the dummies head completely missed the side impact airbag and only got some of the upper head curtain airbag.

Prius crash test . . .

Side impact . . .

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKnGans-JD0[/ame]


I know the Volvo has a good reputation for crash safety but I think the Prius does better in the side impact.


Wildkow

 

Thank you Danny you would have enjoyed yesterday and today immensely as it was just one long string of invectives. The electrical for the Volvo seat is complicated and well outside my ability to understand. I have therefore taken the seats down to Electric Labs to see what the lads there can accomplish. I will continue to report and note all steps to the best of my ability.

It is but since there are concerns about safety and deployment of airbags I decided to address those concerns first and get them out of the way. As you have stated the only thing being affected is the small side airbag deployed from the seat by both the Volvo seats and the Prius seats. This side airbag protects the chest area but seems to fall well short of usefulness in the Volvo side impact video as compared to the Prius. If the electric shop can connect the Volvo side airbag to the Prius SRS system they said they will do so, but don't hold your breath. If this is not possible I intend to dismount the two airbags from the used Prius seats I purchased and swap them for the two in the Volvo seats. Personally I think that this is the best way but will defer to the experts. My primary concern here is dismantling the seats and reassembly after the install, in other words aesthetics of the finished product. Secondarily, the functional quality of the install, will the airbag deploy correctly. I really don't see much difficulty in this area.

My next area of concern is the electric seats as you have stated the memory functions are most probably lost as the memory controller is outside of the seat somewhere in a computer. Thus, unless the Electric Lab guys can adapt something the memory function is history.

However, as you have discovered you can't just hook power to the Volvo seats and expect the power seats to begin functioning. From the schematics there seems to be a CAN connections to the seats that must initiate the motors. The EL guys say they can bypass this requirement with relays. I will let you know.

That's all for now, I have a little over 8 days to complete this install before the Wife and I head out for our yearly road trip. Otherwise I have to take the trip with the standard seats or go in the 2006 non-Hybrid Highlander.

Wildkow

 

problemchild

Grrrrrr, I tried that and they didn't work but I got good news from "Electric Labs" this morning saying that they did have them working so go figure. Yes it does seem rather common sense that airbags are "GO BANG" type devices because I have seen all kinds of airbags deployed by simply hooking a 12v battery up to them.

qbee42

I'll ask the guys at EL but I'm pretty sure your 100%. I really don't mind losing the memory functions but the "Heated Seats" will be sorely missed here in the San Joaquin Valley.

Jack66

That seems a rather round about way to do things and a egregious violation of the KISS rule.

I'll be taking my digital camera by and dropping it off so that EL can document the steps they take.

Wildkow

 

problemchild

Please get back to me ASAP, as to how you hooked the juice up to your seats and got them to work. Electric Labs is asking over $2,200.00 dollars to do this and thats waaaaaaay to much for me. Thanks

Wildkow