Oil Overfill - when arguing fails

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Jun 8 2007, 06:17 PM) [snapback]458401[/snapback]</div>

I think that is the overarching problem with the overfilling ... you WON'T have warranty work done. The damage will reveal itself AFTER the warranty has expired, and then it will be on your dime.

Jim ... I have heard some horror stories about those Intrigues ... :blink:

 

Well, that's a fine thing. This person can get Toyota to answer a question about laundering the floor mats:
http://priuschat.com/index.php?s=&show...st&p=459847

But who has managed to get Toyota to directly address the mismatch between the oil change quantity stated in Toyota's manuals and the marks on the dipstick?

 

My experience with a 2004 & 2007 Prius oil change:
a. after draining oil & replacing oil filter, added 3 quarts oil
b. run ICE briefly to fill oil filter
c. added addition oil only to within 1/4" of full mark (or less)

Observation: Next day after driving 5 miles or more re-checked oil level and found that it had risen to the full mark. I am at loss to explain this phenomen, but, I believe this is the root of the problem.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(williaeh22 @ Jun 13 2007, 01:59 PM) [snapback]461024[/snapback]</div>

Holy expanding oil, Batman!!!

 

Same experience as williaeh22: "pre-filled" oil filter with about 6 oz. oil and let it soak in and ran ICE between each dipstick check to 1/4" below full (yes, I waited a couple of minutes each time to let the oil settle into the pan). Checked again after a day's worth of driving and it showed full. :huh:

 

As mine is a new car and will not have the oil changed for 10,000 miles can I assume the oil level is OK if it is within the 2 marks on the stick. Mine is dead on the top mark is this OK or should I get it to the middle.

 

The top mark is "FULL", and is where the oil should be. The bottom mark is "1 QT low" or "ADD", and it shouldn't be there. Anywhere in between is okay.
How will going 10,000 miles between oil changes affect your warranty?

 

gazz is from the UK. Prius cars operated in the EU - running ACEA spec motor oils - have a normal 12 month or 10,000 mile oil change interval

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Jun 14 2007, 11:10 AM) [snapback]461620[/snapback]</div>

Yes the UK Prius has an oil change at 10,000. I have always wondered why you talk about such short oil changes. Some of our GM cars have the oil change at every 20,000 miles and quite a few will be at 12,000.

Strange

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ Jun 14 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]461754[/snapback]</div>

It is strange to anybody from the Rest Of The World. I've covered this topic in other posts, but here is the Executive Summary:

The API (American Petroleum Institute) sets motor oil standards in North America. They also influenced legislation, to the point a vehicle manufacturer is almost forbidden from requiring a specific oil. The API not only is responsible for settings the rather weak motor oil "standards" they are also responsible for promoting the industry, which is clearly a conflict of interest.

There is a thriving lube business in North America, with retail chains like Jiffy Lube, Mr Lube, etc, doing nothing but oil changes. When you consider that many still believe an oil change every TWO THOUSAND MILES is appropriate, that explains the profitable oil change industry. There is a lot of misinformation/disinformation here about oil quality and oil change intervals.

Very very few motorists go to the trouble and expense of having laboratory analysis performed on their used oil, especially on their new oil. I had some very odd results from my Prius motor running on the dealership oil, and finally had the dealership oil tested. It was crap, very poor quality.

What people in the EU may not realize is that Toyota has actually LOWERED the oil change interval from 7,500 miles down to 5,000 miles. There was a lot of publicity over some motor failures due to heavy sludge buildup. If the motor oil was anything like my dealership uses, no wonder! I can't think of any car maker on the planet that has LOWERED the oil change interval, especially with their purported flagship "green" product.

I've attached a very interesting Adobe Acrobat report from the API. It's quite long but to save time, use the Acrobat GoTo feature to jump to page 96. At the bottom of the page, in the Notes, is the information that the Oil Ring Clogging test has been suspended. Operation in a severely cold winter climate like mine will absolutely cause oil ring clogging.

Jump to page 105. This is the current API/ILSAC GF-3 service fill standard. You'll notice the wonderful API oil is still allowed to thicken 275% in use, and earn a "pass." The previous standard allowed 500% thickening!

Used oil low temp viscosity increase is not regulated. Cold stuck rings are allowed. Oil screen debris and oil ring clogging are all allowed but the oil earns a "pass."

In contrast the ACEA oil specs in Europe, especially A3, A5, B4, etc, are far more stringent as they not only refuse cold stuck rings, they also test to dramatically extended oil change intervals

I encourage you to read the entire report at your convenience. You will discover the API/ILSAC is far more concerned about marketing than what is best for the motor.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrin @ Jun 12 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]460080[/snapback]</div>

I just have a hard time believing that this is a serious problem. The vast majority of Prius owners never see this site so they would never consider the premise that the dealer does not know how much oil to add during a oil/filter change. I never ever thought of double checking any car I have owned nor have I ever had a problem related to over fill. I do not think I am in the minority with this approach. I have only had my Prius for a little over 2 months and accidentally found this forum. There is a lot of useful info here but some of the information is making me a little paranoid. If over fill was a real problem people would be all over Toyota...IMHO.

 

I just find it very hard to imagine that someone in a hurry to get the filter on and the next car done before he can take lunch is going to pay much attention at all to the difference in 3.9 and 4.0 quarts. He's just gonna dump it in and move on.

Actually there have been many, many threads on here about this problem. some have actually incurred problems as a result.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ Jun 14 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]461562[/snapback]</div>

The owners manual recommends oil changes every 5,000 miles. Why will you wait until 10k?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Jun 14 2007, 07:28 PM) [snapback]461993[/snapback]</div>

The owners manual in the UK states 10,000, as I said some cars in the UK go 20,000 miles between changes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ Jun 15 2007, 12:47 AM) [snapback]462156[/snapback]</div>

hmm, different oil? doesn't make any sense to me. anyone know why Toyota tells US buyers to change the oil at 5k miles and UK buyers at 10k miles? Do they mean 10,000km?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wiiprii @ Jun 15 2007, 03:16 AM) [snapback]462164[/snapback]</div>

No defiantly 10,000 miles we don't use km's in the UK although we buy petrol in liters but measure FE in mpg.
We only change our oil when we have the car serviced at the dealers (newer cars).

 

I would imagine Toyota uses the same factory fill oil worldwide? I changed mine at 1100 miles. 1/10 the UK norm. The factory fill was 1/8" over "full", appx. The replacemant oil, a US made synthetic blend, seems to be better than the factory fill (engine seems a touch smoother and quieter.) I changed the oil myself and it came out a dark red. I am glad I changed it to flush the metal particles from break in.

My experience was slightly different as to oil fill level than some others.

I drained the old oil for 45+ mins.
I put in 3.8-3.9 US qts
After running engine and waiting 10+ minutes, the oil level was exactly on "full."
After more driving, and then sitting overnight 8+ hrs, the level was 1/8" appx. over "full", exactly like the factory fill was on mine.

I see no reason a few more oz's of oil in the sump at rest will have any ill effects, so am not concerned. If the factory isn't concerned and overfills by 1/8", why should I be? Next time I will use 3 oz less oil. A larger oil filter would have the same effect but I will stick to the original small one.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wiiprii @ Jun 15 2007, 04:16 AM) [snapback]462164[/snapback]</div>

I really am shocked at how successful the API disinformation campaign has been. Not only are we stuck with crap oil, but oil change intervals one half to one quarter what the Rest Of The World uses. This is turning into a real pet peeve for me.

I have covered this to death in other posts. Long story short is that North American oil specs are real crap. I suggest you first download the Adobe Acrobat report above from the API, the one I suggested to the British member Gazz. The wonderful North American oil is - among other things - allowed to thicken 275% in service, and still earn a "pass."

The wonderful North American oil is allowed to have stuck/clogged oil rings, oil screen debris, and off-the-chart increases in used oil cold temp viscosity, and still earn a "pass" rating from the API.

The ACEA oils, especially the A3, A5, and dual rated A3/B4-02 oils, have testing requirements three times longer than the API standard. For example, an API test run for 90/96 hours, the ACEA test run is 200/240 hours. The API allows up to 5.2 litres of makeup oil during that short test, the ACEA allows ZERO makeup oil during the much longer test.

Viscosity increase with the API is up to 275% during the short test. The ACEA has a limit of 90% for the test three times longer. So it's very easy to understand why somebody from the EU is "gobsmacked" to hear of us fretting and biting our nails if our motor oil has more than 3,000 miles on it.

I did a search of "motor oil" and used "jayman" as the optional filter, matching my user name exactly. There were many pages, these are perhaps the most relavent.

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=18410

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=28939

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=29267

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=27824