Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock!

I put a couple of the heat resistant “spark plug header protector” sleeves over the inlet and outlet of the hose, due to their proximity to the block. I’ve never noticed anything except an “oily appearance” look to the inside of the intake manifold looking down the throttle body.

 

Is anybody here keeping up with oil lost between changes and the amount of oil caught in the can during the oil change interval?

 

Hi all!

After my initial post (#2058), I finally got the time and the weather allowed to change the oil and filters, so I considered it was a good moment to also install the oil separator. I went for the following setup:
- new PCV (Toyota)
- new PCV hose (for angle change)
- barbed splicer 10mm Ext. Dia.
- custom-made oil resistant 4 plies, thick wall hose
- cyclonic oil separator
- cheap Chinese oil catch can to serve as collector (with blocked outlet).

Here are some pics of the setup:

I chose this setup from a number of reasons, but mainly because I had them both (cyclonic separator & oil catch can) and I believed the cyclonic separator (used by BMW and probably a number of other manufacturers) will be more efficient. I also had be able to easily drain somehow the collected fluid and dispose it by a proper manner and I couldn't find another suitable solution, so I repurposed the Oil catch can. At the same time, I wanted to keep a short and slightly downwards-oriented route for the hoses to prevent condensation and returning the fluid to the PCV valve. Here is a schematic of the separation and fluid path, although I think the setup itself is quite self-explanatory:
The notes are in Romanian, but you get the idea.

Finally, after 300 km I checked the collector to see weather the setup is efficient or not. I do a lot of short trips and the weather is still cold here in the western part of Romania. It collected about 2 tablespoons of cappuccino-like emulsion, with a very strong gas smell. After a couple of hours it separated into 2 distinct phases.
I think most of you guys are familiar with this.

I repeated the check after another 300 km (mostly city driving) and the result was the same. I hope that the amount of collected fluid will drop when the weather gets warmer.
The car drives the same as before, I didn't notice an improvement in the mileage, but this was not the main reason I did the mod, anyway. Now I manage between 4.5 and 6.3 Liters/100 km, depending on the length of the trip, weather it is city driving or not, etc. I'm very content with these numbers.

One thing that bugs me is the somehow erratic idle ONLY at cold start. The engine revs rather high in the beginning, then it comes down a bit when I put the gear shifter in P to close the gates (which is normal), then it revs up again when it's supposed to idle for warm-up. Higher than prior to the OCC mod, anyways, probably around 2000 RPM, I didn't check yet with my OBD diagnosis kit. After warm-up, things are normal.

I forgot to mention that I also removed the EGR pipe and intake manifold and cleaned them thoroughly. The EGR ports in the intake manifold were dirty but not clogged (93.000 km today). I cleaned the throttle body too, with carb cleaner, carefully rotated and released the plate not to damage the actuating mechanism. Cleaned the MAF and MAP sensors with isopropyl alcohol spray. Replaced EGR pipe, intake manifold and throttle body gaskets with OEM. Carefully torqued all Nuts and Bolts Carefully plugged in all electrical connectors. Removed the 12V battery and HV battery safety plug prior to start working. Reconnected after I finished. Removed the 12V battery connectors again next day for more than 1 hour to "reset" the learned parameters to the "clean state of the parts". Checked again all the connections of the rubber hoses for the collector mod. No errors, Techstream parameters look all OK, including LTFT and STFT.

Thanks for the patience, if you managed to the end of my post. Sorry it took me such a long time to post after I performed the mods, but I wanted to see how it works first and then the war in Ucraine started, so we all got very into the whole situation here in Romania with the refugee crisis and the threat and we focused on what we could do to help. Everything else got somehow in the background and not-so-important.

 

You did a lot!
Did you clean the egr cooler also?

Double check all the fittings. You may have a vacuum leak. Or pulled off a hose
not realizing it. Or didn't reconnect something?

 

Nice work, according to this article, the cyclonic oil separators aren't very effective. Less so than the oil catch can that you are using to collect the oil.

Comparative Performance of 12 Crankcase Oil Mist Separators

Perhaps you can reconfigure the OCC in series, either before or after the cyclonic oil separator to try to catch more oil? You would just need to find another way to collect the oil from the cyclonic oil separator.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

My understanding is the output of the catch can was plugged and not connected?

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

Yes, I got that. However, it seems that the cyclonic oil separator is not very effective.

Since the OP has an OCC as well, perhaps it could be used more effectively instead of just an oil collector.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

@ASRDogman - No, I did not clean the EGR cooler, because it was not THAT dirty (of course, some deposits were already there, we're talking exhaust gases, but I could see the channels inside and they were clear). Maybe I will do that 2 years from now, when I will also change the engine cooling fluid. I triple checked all the connections and fittings, they seem fine. Not sure if I can totally exclude a vacuum leak, but it only manifests first start after the car has been sitting for 4-5-6 hours at least, and it-s only during the warm-up stage. If it is a vacuum leak, it might be one that is caused by expansion-contraction of different components with various speeds, only until the temperature gets more uniform.

@xliderider - as a constant scientific paper reader in my field, I would say a paper abstract is too brief and frugal to help making a relevant idea about the topic. So I wouldn't conclude based on this single abstract (didn't search for more articles on this topic) that cyclonic separators are "not very effective". The authors state they are the least effective of the 12 tested devices. Didn't see the numbers, though. Maybe the cyclonic separators yielded the worst results, but then again, maybe the numbers are too close together to be relevant, who knows? As I said, without being able to read the experimental testing and results... I cannot take that statement for granted. On the other hand, I could clearly see the amount of collected liquid in my case. And there are car manufacturers who use such separators single, double or coupled in series with a fine tuning of the flow, in complex devices: It is true that they use it for large, turbocharged engines, which may have a different flow.
I thought about connecting them in series, but I had a hard time finding a solution for collecting the fluid from the cyclone, which has a different working principle... Otherwise, a catch can is ideal, it separates AND collects the droplets.


@jzchen - Yes, the OCC outlet is plugged with plastic resin. It only works as a receptacle for the separated droplets in the cyclone.

 

Whew! I have gone through all 105 pages, 2088 posts (I know, call me crazy). However, lots of good info here over the years since the initial post. I'm new to the Prius world and with my daily commute (over 100 miles per day), I need this car to last a while. This simple mod seems to provide another tool in the care care toolbox. Parts on order and will install soon after they arrive. Thanks to all that contributed on this one. I learned quite a bit.

 

@Half Vast, what year Prius, and how many miles on the odometer?

You need might need to clean the intake manifold, and the EGR valve and cooler as well.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

@xliderider , my Prius is a 2013, one owner with 81,000 miles. Service records show it was taken to the selling dealer every 5,000 miles for service. Looks like oil changes every 10,000 miles. After all that I have read, I'll definitely be cleaning the manifold, EGR valve and the cooler.

 

Has anyone considered the addition of an oil sensor in the catch can that will trip a dummy light installed in the cab somewhere, to let you know that the oil has condensed up to a level where it's time to empty the can? Of course, any of us installing one of these is likely to be intimate enough with the engine to remember to empty the can at regular intervals, but I can easily imagine a situation where say the car is sold to someone who has no clue, or just simply wanting the security of some informative redundancy. Started looking through McMaster-Carr last night to see what's available, and I'm sure it's possible, just wondering if anyone else has attempted this? If this has already been covered I apologize, but I probably won't read through all 105 pages of this thread to find out

Thinking further down the redundancy rabbit hole just for fun, I was also thinking of a float switch type safety (think reverse of a toilet fill valve) that gets tripped when the can is say half full, that would open and dump oil into a second can that opens to the atmosphere so the PCV loop could never become fully clogged - plus once that float switch opens it would probably trip some kind of code for vacuum loss? I don't yet know these cars well enough for those specifics.

I know this is all various types of overkill, but just throwing out some ideas here...

 

It is a clever idea. One that will encompass a lot of work. I think most of us will continue to check it at 5k oil change intervals.

 

Surely you're right, but I'm here to stir the pot a little...

 

I’d for sure restore ours to stock if selling or trading in. Have an extra PCV hose for just that.

I open the bottom drains on ours (2 Morosos in series) at every oil change (every 6 months, just a few thousand kms), but yeah: you can forget. Maybe I should a reminder note on the oil pan. And the drain bolt and oil filter torque specs.

 

Looking around McMaster, something like this might work. Only hitch I see is that it doesn't say rated for DC, but for .28A AC. Though I think this could still possibly be used as an interrupter-type switch (it's SPST, either NO or NC) in a simple LED circuit nestled neatly in the cab next to a little label that says "Empty Oil Catch."

With an insertion depth of 2 3/4" and 1/2" NPT threads it'd be a fairly easy retrofit. What I don't know is the ID of most of the oil catch cans, maybe 2 3/4" is too deep for some? (sigh, that's what she said)

Is this a solution looking for a problem? Possibly, possibly......

Screen Shot 2022-04-09 At 8.31.39 PM by Dagoba posted Apr 9, 2022 at 8:38 PM

 

My CC is still working good. I am pretty diligent about checking it every time I fill it up with gas along with checking the oil level.

 

I've seen a lot of you guys use the metal fitting between the air intake and the oil catch can 3/4 to 1/2 inch converter. It's the same concept that it is not metal. I would use hose clamps just like with the metal barbed converter.

Can this be used instead?


It's the same concept that it is not metal.

I am getting ready to do an air intake cleaning along with oil catch can install. Any help would be appreciated.

 

PVC (polyvinyl chloride) pipe fittings are not suitable for domestic hot water and will likely melt or become soft whem exposed to ubderhood temperatures.

Choose metal (brass) fittings like those for PEX.

 

@danlatu recommends to just cut the original hose and add 3/8” splicers, run 3/8” fuel line to the can. Pretty much first post, page one of this thread.

Dead simple, and trust me: there is not a lot of space at the intake manifold end; you need to elbow ASAP, to avoid running into adjacent stuff.

you can buy Toyota replacement hose, to return it to stock, for around $10.