Featured OH No! Toyota Might Ditch the Prius c, v (lowercase v for the Prius v wagon) and Plug-In Hybrid

This doesn't make much sense unless the hybrid system works well. The LSh and GSh don't seem to make much sense unless its a proof of concept kludge that proves the concept is too expensive like GM's 2 mode hybrid system.

The naming of the aqua, prius c was always akward and confusing. The marketing off buttface just made it more so. Sometimes branding works, sometimes it doesn't. Smaller, less expensive hybrid makes perfect sense, and as the aqua it sells great. In the US advertising and dealer traing appear to be lacking. The prius phv, yeah way to go in sensationalistic talk to talk. Lentz is just being dumb here, but it wouldn't be the first time. The prius wagon, definitely made a lot of sense for times of expensive gas, but really a deadicated ground up cuv makes more sense. I don't care if you call it prius or not, but it probably needed road manners and a awd option. They could do that on the next gen v, or kill it and build something else, my thought is the rav4 hybrid is going to be a miss too, as it doesn't provide competant enough awd or or mpg, but the drive concept is solid. hsd up front taking most of the load, extra mg3 in back, tall car unibody to give a smooth ride. The prius v didn't have enough oomph with the extra weight and hp, you can fix this by bigger battery and mg3, .... or use the camry system with mg3.

I think we have gotten to the point where prius sounds good to some, but bad to others. Hell lots of people seem to think the hybrid bmw i8 is great, so its not the word hybrid....

I think this press released navel gazing is a sign of management incompetance. We've seen it at gm and ford before. You can't say prius branding was a great idea but we are thinking about killing all the cars but the liftback, and look good. You could quietly kill the prius v by not updating it and saying the old parts were too expensive with the liftback redesigned, and people love the rav4 hybrid for what the v was, but that timing would be a year from now.

Anyway, I think its the butt face concept of a family that might have been what turned people off. Gas prices on top of that may kill the v, but I hope they redesign it on the new platform to be more CUV like, but stay around 40mpg.

 

Dahaitsu may help to compete in the small car market in India: RPT-INTERVIEW-Toyota looks to Daihatsu to crack Indian small car market| Reuters

 

people who ague on space either dont need that space or never see a v (lowercase v for the Prius v wagon) of there life because they simply are not in the same league as far as cargo space. 20% in fuel lost is a bargain compare to the in cargo gain

 

With the fact that Toyota is killing Scion, taking over most models as Toyotas, killing the XB and TC models, I doubt the Prius line will also be pruned, at least for another year...

 

I am seeing ads for under MSRP and low interest loans on the G4 Prius already. Being ugly doesn't help besides the price and cheap gas. Don't see Tesla giving cars away with cheap gas and expensive.

 

I've been suggesting all along that Toyota would betray their plugin - due to their fanaticism over hydrogen. Temporary cheap gas is just as good an alibi as any to couch the real reason for dumping the PiP ... if in fact they do dump it ... temporarily or permanent. After all who in their right mind would consider a hydrogen car when the PiP's efficiency is so much greater.
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really? you think people were dropping 90k on tesla because gas was 5 bucks?





MERGED

probably why gm is dumping the electric caddy, and i suppose you think volt and bolt will be next.

 

We have a 2011 liftback w/Solar and a 2012 v... and love them both.. We LOVE the Solar on the liftback.. We bought the v used back in November and after driving both, I enjoy the ride and feel of the v over the liftback.. the liftback is still better MPG's.. but the v has been doing much better than we expected.. (ave 47.2)

 

I disagree

BMW i3, i8;
Nissan Leaf
Chevrolet Volt
Tesla Model S

All different/unique, all defining its own markets, and value/return.

The markets are evolving, as the cars.

 

nah - because GM isn't gaga over hydrogen the way Toyota is, and GM didn't run ads, stating that, "plugins are only for people with 4 hours to waste". But I sure hope it's not true, that they're going to scuttle the PiP's. Its got the highest CS mode that you can get out there.
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I think those inside toyota that want to kill the prius v (wagon) simply don't want to pay to redesign it right on the new gen IV platform. They want to sell the RAV4 hybrid instead in the US. The Japanese car market, the main one always for the prius v was hungry for it in 2012, when they sold more than expected 130K units in japan and 187K units world wide. Hybrid incentives are gone from japan now, and the vehicle is not selling as well there or in the US with lower gas prices. If they can sell some a prius liftback, camry hybrid, or rav4 hybrid instead then .... they are better off killing it. If those customers go to a different manufacturer, the roughly No reason to talk prematurely of killing it though, its a profitable vehicle. Internally they need to have the discussion though. My sense is a prius wagon (call it that or avant, but lower case v is stupid) can be closer to a subaru than what they have now. Put in an optional rav4 hybrid drive train (AWD, more powerfull engine, make the battery lithium like the alpha and save space). For that they need money to redesign on the new platform, but a prius wagon makes sense even with low gas prices, they just need to spend the money on a redesign.

I'd say next january is the natural time to prune the prius v, if they aren't going to redesign it. They can always redesign if gas gets more expensive. The prius phv went on hiatus last june, so its already temporarily pruned, but promised to make it back sometime this year or next.

The only difference between hiatus and cancelled, is a promise that it will come back. I belive it will come back but I don't have insight into Japan. The american marketing folks told us the hiatus had nothing to do withthe mirai, but that just doesn't make any sense, they were gone about the time the mirai went to sell. IMHO there are two groups in toyota. The fuel cell no long range plug-in group that is led by chairman of the board Uchyamada, and supported by Lentz and bob carter, and the lets do both headed by ceo akio toyoda, osiago, and others in Japan. The first group is more vocal and passionate than the second group, and the CEO needs his board chairman on board for other more important decissions. I think Lentz floating this is part of internal politics to not bring back the phv, but ..... the numbers are rather dismal for the mirai in the US, because of infrastructure, and the thesis that no one wants plug-ins but they will stick with hybrids in the US is betrayed by a record breaking january for plug-ins, while mirai only delivered 26 units, and hybrids sunk to their worst january since the tsunami hurt sales in 2011 and the US was in auto recession. We know they have people working on it. The CEO is going to ship it. It can't hurt the mirai anymore because the mirai simply hurts itself.

The last car up from the family, the prius c/aqua, well that isn't going away soon. Buttface commercial never explained why this car on a different platform with a different engine was called a prius anyway. The aqua was the best selling car in japan last year, and when it is redesigned it will be the best selling car there again. When its redesigned, does it get a new name like aqua in the US and better advertising? Who knows, toyota seems really bad at the ad game. The car is herre to stay. Its been second best selling hybrid to the liftback many months last year. On a 5 year cycle it will get a redesign next year, or maybe the year after. The city car marketing does not fit. The inexpensive to drive and maintain fits. It competes in this space with the camry, but oh well there are customers for each.

 

By the time the ELR finally made it to market, GM was saying it was going to be a limited production run. They wanted something to compete with Tesla, but realized an expensive Volt just wasn't going to do.

The new Cadillac flagship, the CT6, will have a PHEV model.

 

Nissan has said that the looks of the leaf have hurt sales. The gen II volt and model S look conventional for their classes, teh model S looks good not different. I don't think the i3 looking different helped, but they have a good design and weren't planning for large production, so it didn't hurt.

The only one that gets the unique badge helping here is the i8, but that is an expensive sports car, and it looks good. Different but bad like the leaf did, does not help.

The elr is in the model S 70d price class, but lacks the acceleration. It can't compete, so they are killing it. Days are gone where you can lux up a chevy and make it a cadilac Toyota can't even do that with Lexus, and they are the best at transforming a car to luxury. The new head of cadilac is anti plug-in from way back, still GM says cadilac will have plug-ins and they will. Its really strange that the next one will be made in china, but that is another mater. I think if Uchyamda, Lentz, and carter test drove a Tesla maybe some of their non-sense of long range plug-ins will never work. I know the cadilac head has done this. Akio Toyoda has a tesla roadster, he understands. Its hard for him to get the old wood working on the right stuff.

 

The 4 vehicle above are cited as being "different/unique". Indeed, they are different. But (except for the Leaf) they are all handsome vehicles. The new Prius is "different/unique" as well, but not what many will agree is an attractive car. IMHO, based on pictures I have seen, the new Prius is clumsy and uncoordinated. The rear view is downright ugly. Images of the Aztec return to mind. And finally, the head and tail lights, after a year or two they will become the owners nightmare. They will be expensive to replace when broken (my guess they will be only available from Toyota), they will become a "trend setter" that no other cars will follow.

 

why are you bringing your continuous prius design rant into another thread?

 

You raise a legitimate point. I know it is continuous, because I am unable to understand how professional designers could produce such a design. My theory, upper management overrode the design department. I've seen it happen many times, and in fact I have seen it in the architectural firm where I was employed. What I'd really like to know is, did Diane ("knock you sock off") see this, or an earlier design?

But to answer your question, the discussion had turned to "different/unique" designs' and was complementing 3 or the 4 mentioned. I'll curtail my rants in the future. BTW, I enjoy your post. Short, but direct, and on point.

I look at a number of threads, just as many do.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm starting to like the 4Gen just because of so many rant posts

Every time someone brings 4gen looks to the conversation, more pretty it looks. Thanks Felt

 

There are things most humans consider beautiful, and those that most consider ugly. A mother can love a child that everyone else thinks is ugly.

IMHO the gen IV is neither. It's side view remains quite nice, but the front and tail seem uglified from the gen III. These look like some boy racer Japanese add ons that may go well with a civic, but doesn't look right here. I don't think it will hurt sales, but its not going to attract those 18-35 year olds that perhaps they wanted to sell the car to. LEDs are amazing things, that allow designers to do things that they could not do with hallogens or regular head and tail lights. That does not mean that a good designer worked on this, and there are many good designers within lexus, that could have helped perhaps. Still that is neither here or there, there is a head wind of low gas prices in the US.

Does that mean you build a wagon version of the gen IV for the US? I think Jim Lentz doesn't like that idea, and is floting this article for internal political reasons. From a pr point of view it simply seems stupid no matter what they decide. Maybe he likes the looks and higher hp of the rav4 hybrid and thinks US dealers will be easier to train idk.

As for the aqua/prius c, I think this was a prius in name only and doesn't need to follow the gen IV time line. If it looks different well that is fine, I don't think the gen IV needs to be imitated. I'm sure the next gen will sell in the US as this one sells well here for toyota, but who knows they may change the name as it never fit right anyway. Its not a city car, its a small hybrid. Its perfectly capable of long camping trips ;-) as a friend that has one does with her boyfriend and dog. They take her car because it uses a lot less gas and easily fits there stuff, and her dog is used to it now.

 

austingreen - You are good with words. I look for, and appreciate all of your post.

Telmo - You mean you are taking pity on its looks?

 

now now . . . we're all entiled to voice our views - contrary as they may be . . . peace & love.

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