Featured OH No! Toyota Might Ditch the Prius c, v (lowercase v for the Prius v wagon) and Plug-In Hybrid

POS?? Not sure why you would say that? The Gen 2 XB improved in every category. It should of sold much better then it did for the size, features and price that is it offered at by Scion.

 

LED'ed the house and office, added insulation and low-E4 windows, added inverter spot heating and cooling, replaced a guzzler with the Prius v. I'm on it. Still, the PIP makes no sense.

 

There are some of us who view fuel efficiency as another option.

Bob Wilson

 

Hence, "replaced a guzzler with the Prius v".

Not to mention that many if not most kwH come from carbon sources.

 

the pip makes for those of us who make a lot of under 15 mile trips, and also want to reduce foreign oil dependence. i realize we are a small minority.

 

I saw a 2016 rav4 and a prius v, next to each other same color while driving yesterday. The rav4 looks totally better if you are looking for a CUV. I'm beginning to think with the pricing and gas prices, there is not room for the prius v on dealer's lots.

Compare Toyota Prius v Versus Similar Competitor Vehicles
The price difference is only $1760 more than the v, but for that you get much better acceleration, awd, more passenger, and more cargo room. If its about more passenger room than the prius liftback but you want a trunk and don't need the cargo room, the camry hybrid is only $335 more and has 5.5 cu feet more passenger room, and is 3 seconds faster to 60.

That makes the prius v, a tough sell on north american dealer lots, and it is desparately in need of a refresh. I think objectively if you are spending the money to make a wagon out of a toyota, you base it on the camry hybrid, not the prius. I'm guessing this is lentz point, he doesn't think north american dealers will be able to sell many prius vs with most people being fine with the cargo room of the prius liftback, but some wanting a CUV which the rav 4 does much better, and others wanting more comfortable passenger room than the prius liftback which flows to the many midsize hybrids - camry, fusion, sonata, malibu, c-max.

I'd wait a second before making that judgement, perphaps the next gen prius phv gives you something more than just using less gas, what if it is smoother and accelerates better than the prius liftback? What if its 20 mile aer? I agree new york is not a great state for this car, it is abetter fit for the west coast (california, oregon, washington) and the good phev states - texas, florida, oregon. The original picking of carb states versus good plug-in states doesn't look good. Who knows maybe they may roll this one out nation wide.

I know the feature of being able to pre aircondition you car is worth money in the hot states. I agree new york is a bad fit, but new york is not the US, and phevs have a great future in the country as a whole.

 

Well, its a little like what Chelsea Sexton used to say (not sure what she is saying now), but she tried to stress that the plug-in benefits is quality of drive not all the eco-benefits some like to claim for it.

To me PiP makes a lot of sense as an affordable plug-in. However, with all the mega-incentives for the OTHER plug-ins, PiP looks funny. If it was straight up no CA ZEV mandates, no incentives, PiP might be the only game in town. The other way PiP is attractive if you are off-grid and want to solar charge you don't have to have a substation at your house to fill up.

 

The mega-incentives won't last long. GM will get stuck mid-cycle with Bolt & Volt. Nissan and Tesla could be in a pickle with tax-credit expiration too. It makes sense watching Toyota carefully consider sustainability without those incentives.

 

Well its not just incentives, if there is a CA mandate that EV's must be sold, then they must be sold and at a cost that consumers can afford.

 

I think this is where toyota got it wrong at first reasoning. You can see the push back from that reasoning when the toyota sponsored carnegie study came out. The small pack 11 miles epa on the prius phv, 50 miles on the eq, seem fine if people are buying for low price and the batteries are really really expensive ($1200 toyota said back then, chevy and nissan said no way, they should be much cheaper). Once you question the assumption that people want a plug-in and cost is the main factor, it because rather doubtful that they won't want most of their daily miles electric. That is exactly what people have said in the surveys, and I am sure if the net gen prius phv is going to be sucessful instead of the pulled early like the first generation, it will need to give people more of that electric driving experience. Toyota actually got the biggest mega incentives for effort. They just shoehorned a little bigger batter into the prius, for that they got $4000 almost $900/KWH and hov stickers in california, the state that got over half of them. In comparison the tesla model S 70d gets $143/kwh and a hov sticker. Still the model S is the best selling plug-in world wide right now, and the prius phv is on hiatus, the rush on plug-ins isn't toward smaller batteries.

You have to remember the prius phv was in response to people rolling their own phev out of the gen II prius along with real percieved competition from the volt. Those hobbiests put in bigger batteries than toyota did. Its the federal not the california incentives that really got the ball rolling, and the best selling plug-ins tesla model S, volt, leaf, bmw i3, ford fussion energi are sold nationwide, and the tesla and bmw world wide. Don't take the wrong message.

Toyota needs to retool and get rid of the wrong thinking that cheapest is better. We will see what they do when they finally tell us some time this year. All the signals are regional sales not national but more electric miles and more acceleration before the engine comes on. Remember when toyota first was promting small was better, fuel cells were supposed to be wildly popular by now and they got -mega incentives.

 

^^^

Don't forget to mention that $7,000 premium price tag over the base prius is laughable for what you get.




iPhone ?

 

it's more like $3,000. with the additional options.

 

I am going by base price $24k. PIP is $31,000.

Prius 3 is $25k.


So, my math is $7k difference between base, unless you are talking about some sort of incentives.

For that $7k (or your math), you get a crappy navigation which is slow to respond along with a tiny faded out screen, and heated seats which for someone in California is worthless. ... And different wheels.




iPhone ?

 

Compare Toyota Corolla VS Similar Competitor Vehicles
over half were sold in california. The difference in list price between a 2015 prius II trim, and a prius phv was $5790. There was a $4000 tax credit and an HOV sticker in that state, taxes could be 9%,so call it $2150 after tax credits + extra sales tax.

I don't know about you, but $2150 seems fairly cheap to add PHEV, HOV, heated seats, and nav. That's rather moot now though, you could have gotten something nicer if you wanted a plug for not much more money. The gen I prius phv is officially dead, with a few left overs trickling out into the wild. Hopefully the gen II or gen IV is a better car. Most people that wanted a plug, wanted more electric miles. The writting was on the wall that toyota would kill the gen I, so sales didn't live anywhere close to the potential. I assure you $2150 is not a lot of money compared to what people were paying for kits to do the same thing, but no waranty or hov.

 

why wouldn't you consider incentives?

 

What does "better" actually mean?

In other words, what is the gen-2 goal?

Remember, a big part of gen-1 was to demonstrate how much could be done with so little... and without needing liquid cooling. There was any type of high-volume target for this market.

 

Not true if you are referring to general. People likes the Rav4 hybrid. Tesla project 80k to 90k delivery in 2016. You have to build something people want.

 

if you look at the sales figures, i stand by my statement. ymmv.

 

I ain't paying $7000 more, I am waiting for a sale or used. When PiP first came out, it was expensive, then before you know it, price came down...in 2012 one guy from WV got two in NY for $25.5k before WV $7500 tax credit + USA $7500 tax credit.

 

so, you wouldn't pay $7,000. more. but the usa credit is only $2,500.