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Offshore drilling Vs Conservation

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Alric, Aug 19, 2008.

  1. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Yep, courtesy of the generous Canadian taxpayer
     
  2. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    France is a Socialist country, and historically nuclear power was heavily promoted by the Communist Party, the Socialist Party, the Gaullist (Charles deGaulle) party. As a result, the general public is quite proud of the many achievements of their nuclear industry. Here in Canada, you don't see that pride, which is odd as AECL (Atomic Energy of Canada Limited) has had many key breakthroughs in nuclear energy

    All nuclear activity in France is controlled by the government-run EDF (Electricitie de France). My apologies to French speaking folks, I can't figure out how to insert appropriate apostrophes and other puncuation marks.

    Je suis desole!!

    All research is carried out by the government run CEA (Commissariat a l'Energie Atomique), including reactor design and construction oversight. The first high commissioner of CEA was a member of the Communist Party of France

    CEA, Framatome ANP, Cogema, and Alstom recently became Areva, which is 90% owned by the French government

    France proves that - unlike the sloppy oversight and general incompetence of Russians - government central control *does* work for projects that require massive capital upfront, and long-term stewardship. In the case of nuclear power, you require massive captial upfront, and long term stewardship

    N'est ce pas??
     
  3. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    ignorii
    BS! :mad:

    [​IMG]
    "Our nation's future security and prosperity depends on the next President making the hard choices that will break our nation's strategic dependence on foreign sources of energy and will ensure our economic prosperity by meeting tomorrow's demands for a clean portfolio. John McCain has made the necessary choices - producing more power, pushing technology to help free our transportation sector from its use of foreign oil, cleaning up our air and addressing climate change, and ensuring that Americans have dependable energy sources."
    John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

    If you dare to learn more, click on the link . . .
    . . . otherwise just continue ignorantly spewing your politically motivated lies. :mad:

    I am logical enough to realize that when you have pending severe energy shortages, you don't hobble one of your biggest sources of energy . . . oil.

    I am all for reducing usage of oil,and in the long run totally eliminating its use as fuel for transportation or electric production, but artificially cutting off your own domestic production NOW and relying more and more on imported oil is just asinine! Prue and simple stupid is as stupid does, DUMB!

    Being that the web site to the link you provided is currently down, I can't tell if this statement - "Any one of those measure would obviate the need to increase our oil production and imports from middle east countries." - is yours or Obama's. - Either way, it is an ignorantly wrong pie in the sky assumption.
    It says absolutely NOTHING about decreasing dependence on foreign oil!

    The quickest way to decrease dependence on foreign oil does not include preventing our own domestic exploration and production. Domestic oil production is already in a decline stage. Throwing up politically motivated barriers to more exploration and production during a decline is stupidity!

    From what you have posted from Obama's answer to that group, even he doesn't mention domestic oil exploration and production. Did you leave that out, did he not say it, or are you just ignoring that too?

    . . . much like you are ignoring . . .
    Are you now a true believer and champion of fuel cell vehicles as shown in your chart?
    Hah! Big talker :p . . . throw up the charts touting fuel cells, yet you can't personally bring yourself to say you believe in it. :pound::pound:

    Tool! :rolleyes:
     
  4. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    Let's look at a couple of McCain's points. This is all he had to say about anything non-nuclear or oil:

    "John McCain Will Encourage The Market For Alternative, Low Carbon Fuels Such As Wind, Hydro And Solar Power. According to the Department of Energy, wind could provide as much as one-fifth of electricity by 2030. The U.S. solar energy industry continued its double-digit annual growth rate in 2006. To develop these and other sources of renewable energy will require that we rationalize the current patchwork of temporary tax credits that provide commercial feasibility. John McCain believes in an even-handed system of tax credits that will remain in place until the market transforms sufficiently to the point where renewable energy no longer merits the taxpayers' dollars."

    That doesn't read like promotion or incentives through research. More like continued status quo.

    This other one is laughable:


    "John McCain Will Effectively Enforce Existing CAFE Standards. John McCain has long supported CAFE standards - the mileage requirements that automobile manufacturers' cars must meet. Some carmakers ignore these standards, pay a small financial penalty, and add it to the price of their cars. John McCain believes that the penalties for not following these standards must be effective enough to compel all carmakers to produce fuel-efficient vehicles. "

    Effectively enforce? If he meant it the CAFE standard would be raised to 30 or 40. Not "enforced".

    So..let's turn this around. Do you have a link to a reasonable study of the impact of offshore drilling in price or dependence. We do have the DOE link which directly contradict yours and McCain's position.

    EIA - Impacts of Increased Access to Oil and Natural Gas Resources in the Lower 48 Federal Outer Continental Shelf

    Here is another link to the ScienceDebate2008 answer's:

    Sciencedebate 2008
     
  5. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    Seriously dude, take the blinders off. :rolleyes:

    John McCain Believes In Promoting And Expanding The Use Of Our Domestic Supplies Of Natural Gas.

    John McCain Will Propose A $300 Million Prize To Improve Battery Technology For Full Commercial Development Of Plug-In Hybrid And Fully Electric Automobiles.

    John McCain Supports Flex-Fuel Vehicles (FFVs) And Believes They Should Play A Greater Role In Our Transportation Sector.

    John McCain Believes Alcohol-Based Fuels Hold Great Promise As Both An Alternative To Gasoline And As A Means of Expanding Consumers' Choices.

    Today, Isolationist Tariffs And Wasteful Special Interest Subsidies Are Not Moving Us Toward An Energy Solution. We need to level the playing field and eliminate mandates, subsidies, tariffs and price supports that focus exclusively on corn-based ethanol and prevent the development of market-based solutions which would provide us with better options for our fuel needs.

    John McCain Will Commit $2 Billion Annually To Advancing Clean Coal Technologies.

    John McCain Will Establish A Permanent Tax Credit Equal To 10 Percent Of Wages Spent On R&D.

    John McCain Proposes A Cap-And-Trade System That Would Set Limits On Greenhouse Gas Emissions While Encouraging The Development Of Low-Cost Compliance Options.

    John McCain Will Make Greening The Federal Government A Priority Of His Administration.

    John McCain Will Move The United States Toward Electricity Grid And Metering Improvements To Save Energy.

    Is it a learned deficiency with you or genetic?



     
  6. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    Two billion for clean coal compared to 300 million for battery technology?

    Please...
     
  7. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    We also need to get rid of the subsidies and tax exemptions/credits for the coal/oil/gas industries. These are 100+ year old industries. They don't need subsidies.

    I'm glad to see that both candidates are far better than "W" on these issues. Both have their own faults in these areas, to be sure, but seem to "get it" more than shrub ever did.
     
  8. robbyr2

    robbyr2 New Member

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    Oil and natural gas don't need any help. I don't think we can help much more than the $51 billion in profits last quarter. I would support McCain's position on clean coal- but that's really Obama's too. I'm suspicious of the notion, but we have too much of it to ignore it.

    Not a green answer at all. Ethanol is not the answer for the US. Biofuels? Maybe someday, but we have to figure out something to make it from besides corn.
     
  9. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    So, in other words you agree with McCain.

    We need to level the playing field and eliminate mandates, subsidies, tariffs and price supports that focus exclusively on corn-based ethanol and prevent the development of market-based solutions which would provide us with better options for our fuel needs.
    - John McCain

    . . . like switchgrass?
    Biofuels from Switchgrass: Greener Energy Pastures
     
  10. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    I agree, corn is not the answer.
     
  11. the big d

    the big d New Member

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    drill now so i can fill my pickup for under 100 dollars
     
  12. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    you're joking, right?
     
  13. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    I hope he is..
     
  14. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    wutz the CSRA anyways?
     
  15. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Probably the Central Savannah River Area around Augusta, Georgia
     
  16. robbyr2

    robbyr2 New Member

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    Of course, "market-based solutions" would not mean eliminating tax credits, direct subsidies etc for the coal, oil and natural gas industries, right?
     
  17. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Used to live near there... long long ago. Little embarrassed that I could pull that one out of the air. They used to send tritium rich water down to us in Savannah on occasion (well, once anyways).