Offshore drilling Vs Conservation

True . . . so very true! . . .

. . . if one is ignorant enough to believe those pie in the sky projections.

So Alric, are you now a true believer and champion of fuel cell vehicles as shown in your chart? ANSWER THAT QUESTION IF YOU DARE!

If we save as much as you are claiming can (WILL?) be done . . . then you should be telling people, "go ahead and drill for your oil, it will be useless in 21 short years, and you oil company idiots will go bankrupt" because, according to this . . .

http://priuschat.com/forums/freds-house-pancakes/51190-offshore-drilling-will-help-22-years.html

. . . it will take 22 years before any new offshore drilling 'significantly affects overall domestic production.'

 

americans are energy pigs in every sense of the word. i see people leaving lights on, fans on a/c's set too low and on and on. thats why the middle east hates us so much and the rest of the world seems to be following behind.

 

The reason they hate us is because our electoral system- foreign policy is inconsistent. The fact that our leadership could change in 4 yrs and the Elected Prez could already be Lame!

 

That's not a personal attack, mate, that's just an observation. There are numerous examples of people being exasperated by you and posting comments similar to the one you posted.

Who in CA? Furthermore, it takes years for the field to reach peak production so any real impact is years away.

I agree completely that we need to look at all options. My objection is to the constant talk of drilling and almost no talk about conservation, which can have a more substantial impact. Republicans taking the mickey out of Obama for pointed out the affect that tyre pressure can have on fuel efficiency just underscores that attitude.

 

Yeh! We american pigs are just pimples on the world's a--, aren't we. :rant:

 

left1 is right about the energy pig part, and in a way right about the ME bit. Our dabbling in their affairs is a function of the energy pig part. Don't think the rest of the world hates us, they just thing we're an arrogant lot of tossers.

 

You are absolutely 100% correct. We waste energy as a whole. And we've make mistakes around the world. I don't like agree with zealots, but I don't like bashers either. Not every one is an energy pig and I believe, on a whole ,we trying to learn how to do things better. It's not like the rest of the world are these energy saving saints. People do what works for them and what they can get away with. I just get tired of hearing, so called americans, bashing America. No, we aren't perfect, never where, never will be. But I like to believe as a whole we try. I guess it was the use of the word "pig" that offended me. If it had been stated that as a whole we waste alot of energy and could do many thing to improve, I probably would have thought nothing of it. I don't want to put words in you mouth either. You have the right to be as negitive about America as you want. Things can be said in a constructive manner or a destructive manner. Negitive attacks are food for trolls. Positive assessments have a much better chance of convincing someone and/or getting something good done about it. I just choose to respect our country and when I see things that I don't agree with, try to approach them change them, if possible, in a constructive or positive manner. Others like to tear down our country every chance they get and like to complain about how awful America is as a country. They do it in a destructive and negitive way. It's always easier to criticise and tear down something, than to try and create or make something better. It seems to be to popular thing today. I am in no way suggesting or implying where you may fall in between the two extremes that I just pointed out. I have absolutely no idea. I'm venting mostly due to the issue it mentioned which could be totally my fault for misinterpreting the meaning. I guess it's cool to call police pigs these days also.
You can realize there are faults with your country, your relationships, your friends, yourself and still show respect and point out those issues in a respectful manner. I'm sure this makes me a troll, over-sensetive and seen as naive, but I am not sorry that I'm "PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN".
That does not make me any better than anyone else. I'm not saying American's are better than any other peoples around the world. I'm tired that some American's that seem to enjoy expounding their disrespect for their country. And to reiterate. This it not a personal attach on any of the posters. I respect your opinions. It's just that it hit a nerve that's been building up. And writing this post has been an exercise in stress relief.

:focus: I do have a question for thethread. And I do not have a position that I'm trying to spin. I am still in the data gathering stage and trying to sort out the facts from the FUDS. What is thoughts about not allowing us to drill off-shore but other countries can come in and suck us dry w/o any EPA requirements or concerns. What are options. Extend our limit to 200 miles like some countries. I want to protect our environment but I won't like sitting here and watching other countries sitting 40 miles of shore picking our pockets either. :noidea:

 

There are certainly some on PC that would make a good focus for your post....but tripp is definitely not one of them if you are questioning his support of the US. Keep up the dialog and you can verify this for yourself.

One of the problems is that "offshore drilling" has become a trigger issue for inner political leanings. This keeps derailing the discussion from 'a correct ordering of energy priorities' issue to a 'which side are you on' issue. The "Priorities" issue is meaningless without extremely big improvements in how we use the energy available to us. A great many (right or wrong) truely belive that figuring this out will determine the remaining priorities. When numbers (not emotion) are examined, the amounts of oil involved in offshore drilling is rather dinky in figuring out what BIG changes we need to work towards.

With that in mind, the issue of other countries coming up and sucking nearby oil while we watch seems to be more of a manufactured worry than something real. Claims abound. Let's ensure this discussion is based on some facts we can start to work on.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/09/washington/09drill.html

 

We are in the midst of a presidential election here in America which will set the direction of the country for far more than just four years (it is virtually certain that 3 supremes will be appointed and confirmed). People are being bombarded with TV ads from groups like the American Petroleum Institute and other more murky anti-environmental groups. We hear every day (at least here in Colorado) that all Democrats are opposed to any oil drilling, and for returning to the stone age. We hear every day that the Republicans want to drill an oil well in every inch of the country and offshore waters. You start picking up clues on attitudes and then take them into full glory. Never a real good idea. Debate is what is needed.

On the other hand, I have to admit the API ads have me intrigued when they say we have enough oil and natural gas in America to heat 160 million homes and power 60 million cars for a hundred years if only Congress would let them drill responsibly. I haven't looked it up so maybe 160 million homes is what we have (although it seems high), but we left 60 million cars in the dust decades ago! They don't really attempt to explain their numbers but no source that I've seen suggests that we have a hundred years of oil reserves (700 billion barrels of oil at current consumption). I was disappointed to see that the ad doesn't address their hatred of the polar bear (they just filed a lawsuit against the Bush Administration for declaring the polar bear an endangered species).

I believe the offshore drilling being discussed is China's drilling off the Florida coast. Of course, it's actually in Cuban offshore waters. It is an environmental concern but short of an invasion of Cuba it seems pointless to think we can do anything about it.

 

Let's think this out. Are you going to change you lifestyle significantly according to who is elected president? I'll let you answer for yourself. I'll offer the opinion that our energy consumption is established by our lifestyles, not who is president. Second thought, Is drilling determined by the president, party, or oil company experts working out returns on investment?

Keep doing what you are doing. When you finally uncover the shell game being played, we can have an interesting discussion.

Dang. If you are going to invade a country for oil, pick someplace like Iraq, ...........wait...,oh never mind.

 

I can't stand mis-information, pet peeve of mine.

Cheney: Oops on China drilling off Cuba

WASHINGTON (AP) — Vice President Dick Cheney's office acknowledged late Thursday that he was mistaken when he asserted that China, at Cuba's behest, is drilling for oil in waters 60 miles from the Florida coast.

In a speech to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Cheney said on Wednesday that waters in the eastern Gulf of Mexico, long off limits to oil companies, should be opened to drilling because China is already there pumping oil.

"Oil is being drilled right now 60 miles off the coast of Florida," the vice president said. "We're not doing it, the Chinese are, in cooperation with the Cuban government. Even the communists have figured out that a good answer to high prices is more supply."

He cited his source as columnist George Will, who last week wrote: "Drilling is under way 60 miles off Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies are."

Congressional Democrats pounced on the vice president's remarks Friday and were backed up by independent energy experts, who called the assertion hyperbole at best and a falsehood at worst.

Cheney's office said in a statement to The Associated Press that the vice president had erred.

 

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, so I'll offer that having someone in the White House (and having a super-majority on the Supreme Court who think the same way) who is for more oil drilling, fewer environmental initiatives, less mass transit, more highways, more exurban sprawl, etc. is going to have an impact on my lifestyle. That doesn't mean that I and other Americans won't continue to try to reduce our environmental impact individually. It will be more difficult with the federal government working ferociously to stop us.

If it were a simple matter of economics, we wouldn't have to worry about offshore oil drilling in America, because it's way more efficient to pay the Saudis to bring their oil to the surface for $13 a barrel. If we got everyone in the US to drive a vehicle getting 40 mpg (like the European Union's average), we could save 1.4 billion barrels of oil a year (about 20%). But with federal government opposition, is that going to happen?

Yes, well we tried to invade Cuba on the cheap which didn't work so well even before we invaded Iraq, although it wasn't about oil.

The influence of oil on world politics isn't going to be eliminated by America's energy independence. Energy independence through alternative energies is the only answer for most countries- since not every country in the world has oil and natural gas. But only if they want it!

 

I do apologize for the China in Cuban waters note, however, it did first come up in 2006. However, I believe that I read last year hat China had leased drilling rights from Cuba for offshore wells. It was in connection with the shortage of drilling rigs, in that it meant China couldn't do much with those rights even if they wanted to for several years.

 

Conservation and energy. It's going to take a combination of all the above. I looked into the Sinopec deal back when I seen it come out.

Not trying to be a jerk, but the whole point was and still is:

The point isn't that China is not presently drilling for oil within 90 miles of the U.S. The point is that they CAN! --- and, thanks to the Democrat congress --- we CAN'T.

Chas' Compilation: McCain, offshore drilling, China and Cuba

Before you freak out on the red it was a copy paste.

A lot of wars start over natural resources.

WWII Second Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now China is in the position that it not only wants more energy and resource, it needs them to sustain their growth.

Part of the reason most foreign countries dislike the US is they want and can't quite achieve the American dream.

Then there is the Executive Economic Hit-man. He goes in and promises the dream, sign here for your World bank or IMF moneys for the dream, knowing they wont be able to make the payments and hope to reposes for resources.

We aren't a democratic society any more. It's Capitalism.

To some it's just a game Capitalism II

Here in lies the problem.The Capitalism Site : Laissez-faire Capitalism is the social system based on the principle of inalienable individual rights. It's the conflicts which ensue from the idea that we are caught up in.

 

China in Cuban waters goes back to 1977 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/09/washington/09drill.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 

Hahahaha, apologize and still try to claim its true, good one. LOL Ok, refuse the truth, common problem these days.

 

F.Y.I. Capitalism is not a form of government, although it drives motivations for most forms of government, whether they admit it or not. For those that keep forgetting, including the news media, polititians and especially presidents, and presidential canidates, WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY. WE ARE A CONSTITUTIONAL FEDERAL REPUBLIC, but then again if you've ever watched J-Walking on the Tonight Show you'll realize most people probably don't know the difference anyway, especially when confusing the popular vote with the electoral college and states rights. And talking about Cuban territory or thier side of the line vs The US territory or side of the line, there is no line in the real world. It's two straws sharing the same milk shake in many cases. The underground oil resovoirs do no have neat little bladders like the Prius's gas tank. Who pumps first and fastest gets the biggest share of black gold. And of course you've never heard of slant drilling. Look I'm not trying to be judgemental or say what's right or what's wrong. I'm not advocating drilling, but our reserves are not infinite. Some day our children or childrens grandchildren may need them. Some people are willing to make huge sacrifices for the "snail darter", but want to stick their heads in the sand when it comes to protecting our oil reserves. The question that I posed was do you what to sit by and watch while other countries pick our pockets. It will happen, it is not a question of if, it is a question of when. I have no political adgenda in my question. I am as upset as anyone with the backsliding that we've done regarding environmental protections. I don't profess to have an answer. But I don't think sitting by, with our thumbs up our whatever, while others take advantage of our haggling is a responsible position either. We don't have to build a field. It's already there and "They will come".