Nissan launches Serena S-Hybrid minivan in Japan

Problem there is that "Ecoboost" has no chance of getting real life economy of Atkinson cycle naturally aspirated engine and that 4cly hybrid Sienna would get a lot better mpg than V6 Hybrid in HH.

As to the turbo's, start/stop, regen braking, they all cost money and as we can see in mild hybrids, gains are nowhere as big as full hybrid systems.

European and US mags are full of reviews where turbo vehicles dont get anywhere close to advertise real life mpg. Didnt Edmunds say few weeks ago how new Escape Ecoboost got 7 mpg less than new CRV, despite being same on paper?

 

Many people don't achieve EPA figures with hybrids, either, including automotive media. Once you add a relatively inexpensive stop/start system, the potential is there to exceed EPA figures with some modified driving habits. Having any relatively efficient engine system is a bonus, hybrid, turbo or whatever. Like with our Prius, I can greatly exceed EPA numbers in the Highlander Hybrid, or not even manage to meet them, depending how it is driven.

Is the Camry hybrid powertrain really up to pulling nearly 5000 lbs of minivan, plus a full load of 7-8 passengers and cargo? If so, perhaps they could eek out 30mpg combined EPA, maybe more if they actually produce one and optimize it, rather than just pop in a new powertrain. Even if they used the same powertrain as the HiHy in a more aerodynamic minivan, they might hit 30mpg by dropping stuff like AWD, full size spare, power seats and other areas if they invest some R&D to optimize it, as they did with the Prius. But all that costs money, too.

If and when Toyota gives us a hybrid minivan, I'll be very curious to see the price premium and EPA figures along with any other compromises buyers may have to accept vs. the regular Sienna, such as reductions in cargo volume or towing capability.

 

A hybrid minivan will get better fuel economy, but is the public willing to pay the price for it when a non -hybrid can get close to it's numbers?

 

It is not good to generalize... When you have 2 cars compared and driven together at the same time over the same roads at same speeds, and one gets better than EPA and other gets 30% less (7 MPG less than competitor), then there is no reason to generalize things.

Stop/start systems, turbos, mild hybrids do not add real life value, only EPA value... so far that has been the case with every single competitors.

In Europe, we have so many small turbo engines - afterall, Ford actually was pretty late to the game, VW was there years ago, and according to Autobild, there is not a single small turbo engine in the top 10 list, only hybrids and small naturally aspirated petrols.

This includes 2cly turbo Fiats, 3cly turbo Fords and 4cly turbo VWs.

And I have read so many tests where they were compared to modern NA engines from Toyota/Hyundai/KIA, and they never ever won on consumption, even if they all got at least 10% better official figures.

So it is really to pointless to tell us on a hybrid site how hybrids are useless, and how Geo Metro could get 80 mpg hence you dont need hybrid.

 

what non-hybrid will get close to its numbers? Imaginary one?

 

It's pretty simple: if you buy a downsized turbocharged engine and drive brainlessly you may be worse off. If you drive thoughtfully you'll be a lot better off. Car reviewers don't drive thoughtfully.

 

One driven by somebody driving consciously. Beating EPA in our Civic is easy.

 

The Explorer already gets 28mpg highway. When it was available, the FWD Highlander hybrid only was rated 1 better than the AWD.
City is only 20mpg, but know what else is rated 20city/28hwy, the 2006 HHR I drive. The Explorer matches a vehicle two size classes smaller and 1400 pounds lighter.

How many direct injection?

The Kia with a start/stop system here only rated 1mpg higher. I don't think Ford has run their start/stop through the EPA cycle officially. Even though they were available for years overseas, start/stop systems didn't arrive here partly because they didn't add much to the test.

As pointed out, car journalists don't drive thoughtfully. That a look Consumer Reports Prius numbers. You'll be crying foul.

On an extended road trip, with multiple drivers, Cleanmpg got 30+mpg in the ecoboost F150. So it is all YMMV.

 

I believe the real world value of stop/start is greater than EPA value. The same applies to hybrids, which also rely on a stop/start system for their ICE. The EPA routine does not make much advantage of such a system, whereas an individual driver can. Heck, there are hypermilers out there getting well above EPA numbers by manually stop/starting their non-hybrid cars.

As I said, it's all about how the vehicles are driven.

Well, of course it would be pointless, which is why I never said hybrids are useless. I own two of them, so, yeah. Geo Metro? Never mentioned it at all.

I have a media loan of a Prius V right now. Looking back at the fuel economy history, it appears that only one previous journalist managed to best EPA numbers. The others are about right on the combined average.