Next voltec, what do you think of the new rumors

AH! lets' not forget that this IS an election year and people are fed up with federal deficits as well as congress. That being said, increased pressure on congressional members to reduce deficits, just might speed up ending the tax-credits on eash unit sold. Congress, at any time, can overturn and stop the tax-credits. The IRS has to comply with congress' decisions.

GM is spread very thin on having financial "reserves" to use as a backup. GM also has financial obligations to keep funding their pension plan.

Toyota, on the other hand, has deep pockets to draw upon, if the tax-credits were to abruptly end. They are in a much better position to cut the sale price (offsetting the elimination of tax-credits) of each unit sold.

GM does not have this luxury.

DBCassidy

 

That means the tax-credit should not be included in discussions anymore.

No politics means sticking to the window-sticker price.

 

Telling us to keep politics out of the discussion, yet including the tax-credit is quite a contradiction.

Either we are addressing production-cost or we are not.

 

No. It comes from your first post in this thread having nothing to do with the topic and apparent attempt to derail the topic. Congratulations, you managed to infect another thread with poison of the past. You seem unable to let GM's PR from the past go. So some early goals weren't completely met. There was a common sentiment here that they wouldn't even build the car. Daniel stated that multiple times, yet was able to test drive the Volt and give it fair review. GM has done some things in the past that can be held as unforgivable. Their pre-production Volt marketing isn't one of them.

Apparently, you were treated wrongly on some Volt sites.
But this is Priuschat, and it has expanded through the years to include all hybrids and plug ins. The Volt owners here have been quite forthcoming about their experience with the car despite this being a site of 'the enemy'. I think most would agree with me on that, and have been welcoming. But if you wish to butt heads with asshats on other sites, go ahead, just don't drag the assiness back here.

 

So, what is your suggestion?

What can be discussed?

 

I've been perusing PrisChat for years and used to enjoy your insights. Now (on this thread anyway) your postings have become like a petulant third grader.

It's kind of sad.

 

I keep asking for clarity, but instead keep getting resistance & compliants... and still no suggestions. How is that constructive?

 

Also, take notice how I no longer am making references to the past. So, at least acknowledge that effort to progress.

 

Okay.. I'll see if maybe direct questions can get us back on track and make it constructie.

John.. what do you think about the idea of increasing engine size as a means to improve efficency and/or power. What advantages do you see? What problems do you see?

 

The minute GM agreed to the "bailout" from the government, like it or not, the level of politics went up into the stratosphere. GM "has to" abide and honor the government (read U.S. taxpayers) rules, regulations, and "politics". When GM is being vague, ALWAYS, ALWAYS dig deeper for the truth. The balance sheets and audits can give a accurate picture of the financial health of GM. THAT is REALITY. Congress, as mentioned (and repeated again for you). can take away the tax credits. I don't know where you think I am making this up. Don't put words in my mouth. You do seem to have a nasty habit of doing this.

You claim most of the plug-in owners don't like oil subsidies, but you crow about your tax-credits. The question for you is: what do you think tax=credits are? Wait, I will make this easy for you: it Is a subsidy!

The reality is GM needs to keep selling the other vehicle models to obtain a profit and hopefully theprofit margin will fatten up. The proceeds go to further funding of R & D for the Volt( a very good thing), meeting their pension fund obligations, and meeting their "bailout" loan obligations.

This is where the rubber meets the road, if GM fails (read bankruptcy) in any of the above 3, guess what happens then? You, me, and all the other U.S. taxpayers are now on the hook to pay back the billions the GM owed. Also tens of thousands of GM workers, suppliers, dealers are unemployed, increasing the already strained unemployment funds. Yep, these funds also come out of your, mine, and the rest of the U.S. taxpayers' pockets. The federal deficit needs to be addressed and will be addressed.

If you think this is still being made up by me, then remove your rose tinted glasses and have a hard look around.

OR, as said in the movie -"A few good Men" - " You want the truth, you can't handle the truth".

The op started this tread, what was he thinking? He asked for and is receiving what he is getting.

DBCassidy

 

DB, awesome topic, but completely off topic. Why don't you start that one over in the politics forum.

 

Unfortunately, that is a rather blatant avoidance of the questions I asked. But I can roll with it nonetheless.

Larger engine results in a weight & cost problem. Toyota dealt with that by reducing friction, weight, and size of the components within. After all, why would you need a heavy piston or shafts when less power is required anyway? They can reduce the material cost as well.

I see no need for additional power, since the system itself has the ability to split. Take advantage of blending more for squeezing out high MPG when the engine does run. Seeking out optimal RPM should be easier that way, disregarding the driver sound & feel. There's the issue of how quickly the clutches can respond too, since power-carrier spinning differs from what we are familiar with in Toyota & Fords approach.

The ideal is to break out to offer multiple engines, since only a compact isn't a strong business return anyway.

 

What I'm wondering is if these cars will ever be open source enough to be end user configurable.

What I mean is I'd love for someone that wants more oomph to be able to stick in their own bigger electric motors or something. I read somewhere that if the system could handle it, draining 8 kwh in less than 2 minutes would produce the equivalent of 440 hp, sort of an electric nitro boost, after which it would need to run in HV for a while to charge the battery back up. Sort of the same home modifications people were making when hot rodding was real popular.

I would also like to see some vehicle to grid tech, or at least being able to use the huge battery as a home back-up power supply (I heard some Japanese were able to use their prii this way in the wake of the tsunami).

 

I've answered the questions about what's should we do next -- its education time!
If you mean another question you'll have be explicit which one.

Reducing size/weight is expensive and something that might be done in Gen2, but only if production volume gets there.
The added weight is actually a small factor in efficency, 100 pounds is less than 1%.. and its unlikely they can drop a whole lot more, especially from the engine. I think managing costs is more important -- so using the same engine or engines, from other models would be more cost effective even if it adds a few pounds.

Multiple engine choices, if they are stock, would be good. Add an option for a 2.0L at a few hundred or thousand extra and those that THINK they need more power to buy into the EREV/PHEV concept. I think that, like the SUV mentality, people want power even if they don't really need it -- and if they want to pay for it and it gets them into a PHEV, its a good model. Why else would people be buying Camery hybrids.. its not for efficiency. Its power or style or both.

The clutches have little impact on the power-spit.. once its in power-split mode it can vary the full range of splits -- if the engine can provide the torque for that range. Clutches decide what parts are connected to the planetary gears, that's it.

I think they can gain more from a larger motor than they will loose in weight. If they can modify the cycle to have the BSFC sweet spot in low RPM and a wider sweet-spot then the more powerful ICE motor, they may also be able to change the top end gear, to improve the high-end gear ratio.. giving it a very tall virtual 6/7th gear.. But if they sweet spot is small, as it is now, the epicyclic gearing cannot vary enough to keep it there all the time without having to waste power by recharging the battery. There is a speed/load where it can be efficient, but you can loose 5-10% very quickly as the island is small.

 

DIYers have been doing that for a few years now with the Prius. A well made power inverter is all you need to keep the fridge running. It can be a selling point that won't much if anything to the Volt's price. Most of the cost is in the hook up for the user. IIRC, Toyota already offers it in Japan as an option. So GM needs toget going on it if they plan to offer it.