New VW TDI Commercial disses PRIUS

Can't the nuts on this site stop claiming they are clean and all diesels are dirty.......

And y'all that don't get this fact , the loophole vehicles are the real polluters on the road today ..........Why not put a little effort in that direction on this site , on getting them off the road if you truly want clean air . Not just the over & over slamming of all diesels as being so dirty .

Just trying to insert a little reality into the fantasy land that seems to exist over here for some ..........

I'll insert a LOL at the end of my comment if you missed that part of it ..........

 

I have no affiliation with VW , Wth are you talking about ......I've chosen to care about fuel consumption over the last 30 years is my only affiliation with VW .......

ANd I have a life outside of the cute fantasy land that some seem to live in over here . So I was doing other things , glad I was missed , LOL .

And by the way I've owned more than a few Toyota's over the years , gas & diesel powered . I more than likely was driving a Toyota before most of you here were even born ....... There are currently 3 Toyota's in my extended family today . I clocked over 900k miles on a Toyota during the 80s in a Celica , my parents clocked over 600k on a couple of Toyota's in the 70s to late 80s . SO I'm not in any way anti-Toyota . In fact if they were to sell a Camry size car again with diesel power like they did in the 80s my VW would be retired .

 

Re: clowns like you give people that care about the enviroment a bad name

I never said that about 2000 spec diesels , please stop misquoting me . In 2004 the spec was strictened and VW had to redesign the engine for the US 45 state market only to meet this more stringent spec , ergo the TDI-PDs 04-06.5 . So an 04 to 07 yes and I stand by that when all the emissions coming out of a loophole vehicle are considered .

 

Prius owners want to be the driver; not part of the transmission. We manage the energy flow; not shift gear. Some may enjoy manual labor transmission work. We like to be the manager of the car that is easy to control.

 

Re: clowns like you give people that care about the enviroment a bad name

And I stand by the sources I cited directly from the EPA and CARB. If you now want to narrow it down to 2004-2007, those "loophole" vehicles really don't have much of a loophole

 

I agree with you totally on the new diesel cars,, I read up the facts about the pollution from the emission from new diesels vs. gassers, and you hit it right on the nail, the loophole vehicles are the real polluters that is excatly the conclusion that I came up with.

And now since I test-drove the 09 CR diesel and the 09 Toyo-hybrid,now it turns out that I am compleatly sold on the CR, better car overall than the hybrid, but instead what we hear continusly from this forum is that members are always arguing about the complicated exhaust sytem or anything they can think of, trying to diss the 09 CR.

The 09 is a fairly new car ,and to my knowledge no one has had any issues with the exhaust or any other related parts yet, and here we are jumping into conclusions..Well all I could think of, from this point on, is that we are on this forum to mislead and not give an honest an accurate opinion about an excellent car like the 09-TDI and instead we just give props to the hybrid.

 

Hamri,

What is a loophole vehicle and what percentage of the vehicle fleet are made up of these vehicles? Dreamer refuses to answer these very basic questions that are vital to his argument. Maybe you can do better.

I think the 2.0L-CR TDI is a very nice car BTW.

 

Re: clowns like you give people that care about the enviroment a bad name

Seems to me you don't know what you owned in the past. I am with others in wishing you to grow up soon.

 

I owned many of both VW & Toyota diesels over the years . So I thought the fact that from 79-86 Toyota sold many diesel powered cars & pickups in the US should be pointed out . Over the last 30 years I've purchased many different brands of car diesels made repairs and sold them . I've owned 12 Rabbits , two Camry TDs & two Toyota pickup diesels over the years . I drove one Rabbit for ~10 years , I loved that car . I sold my last Rabbit in early 03 and I drove a 81 Toyota diesel pickup for almost 15 years , I sold it in late 99 and hated to see it go .

I've worked on more than a few Audi , Volvo , Peugeot , Nissan , Isuzu & Toyota car diesels over the years . Many of these models had little trouble getting into the low 50s mpgUS in everyday driving .


I've driven many other varying diesel powered models from a wide range of manufacturers over the last 30 years . I've mainly stuck with VW & Audi because they have had the most widely varied range sales of diesel cars here over the last 32 years . But I am a Toyota fan and would gladly get behind of the wheel of diesel powered model again if they offered one here .

 

If you are going to quote me how about quoting what I said , please

First I never said anything about later model loophole vehicles but the majority of what is on the road today that was produced in the late 90s to mid 00s .

And what I compared to , what all this discussion Was about ;

My entire point was if we were to re-adopt 99-03 or 04-07 light duty diesels for a short while if these more efficient models were used to replace these much dirtier loophole vehicles that currently fill our road today there wouldn't be any negative impact to air pollution . Because of the dirty nature of loophole vehicles as they are being replaced by these diesel powered cars would in fact give us cleaner air . As it takes many 99-03 or 04-07 spec light duty diesels to equal the pollution put out by one loophole vehicle of the era they were sold at the highest numbers from the late 90s to mid 00s .

Allowing a re-adopting of EPA 99-03 or 04-07 emissions regs on light duty diesels would allow for the wide variety of current EU standard light duty diesels to be sold here long enough to bring up real world CAFE into a level that would significantly reduce oil waste overnight . And by re-adopting light duty diesel emissions to 99-03 or 04-07 a more fuel efficient option could be sold just long to get the US to the point where the EU will tighten their standards to be more uniform with US standards of today . We would get cleaner air and be closer to not needing a drop of imported oil years sooner .

The possitive impact of doing the above far outweigh anything negaitive from this . And as I see no negatives that would come from this it's win win for us all , less oil wasted and cleaner air for all ..........


If you want some useful data on how dirty loophole vehicles really are try ;

Look up EPA Tier I

Try to find numbers on the unregulated pollution put out while under warm up cycle . Granted there isn't a lot out there by design . But this pollution they spew can't be discounted as many of these monsters that are only used on short city loops never make it out of warm up cycle .

Find the real PM numbers on these monsters . Not much there either by design but they do spew out ktons of them that stay aerosolized for up to months at a time . But there have been studies like the one done in Denver metro area a few years back that quote them as the main cause of the brown cloud .

Check out their contribution to ground level O3 , pollution they put out & cause from their frequent required fuelings .

The cost of producing all that extra gas they waste . All the extra pollution produced while making all that gasoline they waste for no technical reason .

The average manual trans equipped TDI has little trouble hitting 45-50 mpgUS from just about any era . The average loophole truck based SUV is lucky to break out of the single digit or into the low 10s on mixed loops in the real world .

So 15 gals of fuel/gas ;

loophole truck based SUV - 150 - 200 miles

The average TDI 675 - 750 miles

So it takes 4-5 times the oil to go the same distance as the TDI .

Some one else can do a Prius comparison .

 

This is just a case of oversensitivity on the part of the trolls on the VW side that like to come in here and spew crap. Every single person in here would rather their friend buy new VW turbodiesel than the typical gas guzzling SUV, Fullsize truck, or Dodge Magnum type cars. You guys simply choose to single out the type of car you like then drum up charges on Prius owners that all we bash are VW diesels. That is completely false.

 

Dreamer, you'll have to clarify this for me. You say that it takes many 99-03 or 04-07 light duty diesel cars to equal the emissions of one loophole vehicle, and that we can see how dirty the loophole vehicles really are by looking up EPA Tier 1. The 99-03 TDI is a Tier 1 vehicle, and a diesel Tier 1 at that, which means it's allowed to emit twice as much NOx as the gasoline Tier 1. That's where I get lost. No doubt the TDI will burn less fuel than those gasoline cars, but other than that, how is a Tier 1 diesel with twice the NOx cleaner than a Tier 1 gasser?

 

Again light duty diesels are getting the blame for something they aren't to blame for . Power plants & unregulated lawn mowers along with other lawn tending gasoline powered devices are the real NOx producers , in the hundreds of thousands of times levels range above the small amount put out by light duty diesels on the road today . The limited numbers of these vehicles on the road make no measurable impact on NOx levels , there are too few of them to ever impact NOx levels . Not a lot of NOx reduction to be gotten from over regulating NOx levels on almost non-existent light duty diesels .

And again I'm not against re-adopting todays limits when the positive benefits of adopting them came to fruition . Like when the EU finally does so light duty diesels aren't any longer blocked by having stricter limits .

But today there is nothing positive that comes from our current over regulation of light duty diesel emissions only a long list of negatives . All we get today with our silly rules are the negatives of pretty much blocking all of the most fuel efficient transport ever produced in the history of cars from being sold here . And making the ones we do get cost more an be less efficient . But what they do accomplish is the blocking from the US market EU spec fleets of 60-80 mpgUS diesel powered cars . WE are Blocking the one tech today that by itself could wipe out the need to import a drop of foreign oil over night by emissions rules that don't accomplish anything positive is silly to the extreme .

If you really want to remove NOx compounds from the air go after the real polluters , coal , oil & Natural gas fired power plants . And unregulated lawn upkeep equipment . The current over regulation of the less than 1 % of the US fleet that light duty diesels make up today does not one thing helpful & gives us no clean air for the cost .

If we would let EU standard light duty diesels in the US today within a couple of years we could have CAFE in the mid 40s to 50 mpgUS area in short order . And that would make us all safer from removing of the need to import oil taking money out of the hands of the people that want to kill . That is a real positive that could gotten from the adoption of a rational emissions policy when it comes to light duty diesel emissions .

Not a lot of clean air to be gotten from the over regulation of light duty diesels that haven't been sold here since 1986 in any numbers .................

 

Quite frankly, I have no idea what you're trying to discuss, where you're coming from, or what you want. JSH and I have posted relavent data concerning some of these issues, which you don't appear to accept.

What I find confusing is that instead of using appropriate terminology, eg EPA accepted terminology for Bin ranking to vehicle, you make up your own term, "loophole vehicle"

You have not provided one iota of solid evidence, despite the claim of being an "engineer." As such, you are now on the Ignore list, and I will no longer be participating in this discussion.

 

+1. That is SO true

Whether Prius Chat, or the folks at the TDI forum, we're basically on the same page. This pissing match only serves to give ammo to the giant lifted pick-em-up truck crowd

For example, most giant lifted pick-em-up truck drivers think Prius drivers and VW Golf TDI drivers are equally gay and effeminate

Although quite frankly I wouldn't put up with any diesel motor at -40, a modern emission controlled diesel motor is probably a good choice for some folks

 

Ok, I actually noticed at the St Vital Wally, the stock tag is now gone for the 0W-40. Damn, that was a good oil, especially at the price $21 on a 4 litre jug

Terraco wants $96 for a case of 4x4's (Four 4 litre jugs to a case) but they will NOT split up a case. You must buy the entire case

I noticed at Canadian Tire, they carry the Made in Germany Castrol Syntec 0W-30. That probably doesn't meet the requirements, does it?

Hope this helps

 

Why would anyone that has different point of views about the Prius would have to work, come from the VW dealer or from the Vw forums, just because I like the 09-TDI better than the hybrid, it sure does not mean that I dislike the hybrid, the hybrid is a good car and is doing good for the enviroment, but when someone posts and brings out that the VW tdi is better, members here are jumping and coming out with silly excuses about the issues , like ehaust, emissions, relaibilties, and so on and on, this is a faily new car that just came out to the market and there are no proofs about any of these issues, all I see here is to mislead people so they can buy the hybrid,

This is kind of selfish from all of you, what you are basically trying to do is to block and down play all the good things about 09 VW.

 

I have asked for the information about the reliability and cost of replacing the complex exhaust system. No answer was given even though clean diesels were available in Europe for quite a while. How about ask for the MSRP of the price from the dealer, etc.. All the information available to discuss are the VW and Prius track records. How are the track records misleading?

The competing technology has to prove itself that it is better than the existing technology. Hybrids have done so vs gas non-hybrid and Diesel has to go through the same. If Clean Diesel is cleaner than gasoline car how about provide emission data to a comparable gasoline car like Honda Civic? If TDI is more reliable than a gasoline car, provide evidences.

 

The US 2.0L TDI CR is different than the 2.0L TDI CR sold in Europe. Some technology on the US TDI has been around and tested for years. Common Rail (CR) injection has been used for at least a decade with minimal problems. Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF's) have also installed on cars and trucks in Europe. These are know systems and have been proven to be reliable. However, the NOx Catalyst is new for the US and for 2009. The reliability of this component is unknown right now because it has not been used on production cars. The technology is similar to convential catalytic convertors used on gasoline cars for decades.

 

Here is some certification data for the Jetta TDI and Civic

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2009/volkswagen_pc_a0070271_2d0_l2_diesel.pdf

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2009/honda_pc_a0230474_1d8_u2.pdf