New Prius Plug in less than impressive

I am not surprised at all. However, I am pleased
That she went from 38 to 65 is also quite pleasing. It means that we are saving nearly half on her gasoline usage, partially offset by some electric usage. We already installed photovoltaic panels on the roof of our house, so the electricity is solar, and I love cutting the business of both the oil companies and the electric power industry.

 

What you do is not a commute. You use your car for work. That is quite different. That you are doing this on a Prius, just about any Prius, makes huge sense. If everyone putting your kind of miles on each day used a Prius, the US would not need to import any oil.

 

I made similar observations in my situation. So from going back and forth to work, using EV only on surface streets and HV only on the freeway, I'm now trying out the EV on surface then HV on the freeway. That leaves about 8 miles EV for the return trip. I am going to try the return trips on EV only for the next week or two and make some observations.

 

If I could afford a house in Palo Alto, my commute would be <10 miles

 

Not quite true. There are about 425million miles of "long distance" business travel per year (i'm inflating data from 2004, see
BTS | National Household Travel Survey - Long Distance Business Travel Quick Facts. The median is 69 for long-distance commuting and 123miles for other long business trips.

If one presumes a Prius might save 25 MPG compared to the average vehichle, then it would save 17 million gallons of gas per year.

In comparison, the US uses 134 Billion gallons of gas per year so this the saving would be about .01% of our gas usage. A measurable savings, but not nearly enough to stop our need for imports.

 

When I first got my plug-in it charged to 12.5 miles, but travelled all the way to work which is 14 miles away. 2 weeks later, it's only showing 10.2 miles but it still takes me to work without going HV mode. BTW no charging stn @ work.

I think this car is better on short commutes or frequent charging. In our first tankfull, we refilled 8.5gals after running 700 miles. That is with 28 miles/day commute and 2x going over a 100 mile trip. It basically boiled down to approx 80mpg.

On the 2nd tankfull, we travelled 600 miles on 9gals but there were 2 long-distance trips (abt 200 miles round trip on one, and 400 on the other).

Running on HV we average at least 69 mpg.

Odo reads @2200 now and so far we've only refilled the tank 4x--- and the 4th fill-up still in the tank @ full level

We keep on ECO all the time and use cruise control esp when on HV mode.

 

This gets us into the world of VERY LARGE NUMB3RS…

I wonder how many of us have a way to think about 134 BILLION gallons of gas, let alone 1/100 of one percent of that amount.

Thinking about that amount in 10-gallon "Prius Tanks of Gas" might be easier to imagine, I guess…

It would still be a VERY LARGE NUMB3R.

 

First of all, you took me a bit too literally. However, your math is not good. Even using your low estimate of savings, the savings would amount to .13%, not .01%. However, everyone driving a high mpg hybrid, including the Volt, or an all electric vehicle is doing their part to reduce our dependence on oil, foreign and domestic. The US is the energy hog of the world, and it is about time that those of us who are frustrated with our nation's lack of leadership in the world have the opportunity to do something about it as individuals. Thanks to all Volt, Leaf, Insight, BMW plug-in, Tesla, etc drivers in addition to the Prius drivers who hang around on this forum. I saw an article recently about FedEx starting to buy many electric delivery vans at a cost of $150K vs $50K for gas/diesel burners. Since these vehicles put on lots of miles each day, this is another big contribution to reducing US oil consumption.

 

When Toyota announced the plugin version to have 15miles AER, I was truly disappointed. The production model have even smaller battery. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the short AER won't improve overall MPG if your daily commute is in triple digits. The plugin prius has been announced for over a year before preordering even started. I'm wondering why you didn't pick up a calculator and do a simple calculation. Hmmm gee, if I drive 60 miles one way, with 10 miles on electricity and the car is rated at 50mpg when using gas only, I'm only gonna get 60mpg. With the kind of money you spent, You could have converted your 2005 to a plugin with 20KW battery that'll take you to work and back in all electric if you can charge at work too.
The only thing the PiP is good for is the HOV sticker. Unless you work within 5 miles, you're not going to see dramatic improvements in fuel savings.

 

You know, there is a lot of "It only gets 12 MPG better than a normal Prius" going on here. I am not clear why that would be less than impressive.

I am aware that both the Volt (and other PHEVs) and the Leaf (and other electric cars) will have some average distances that they will beat the PiP, just as the PiP has some commutes it is unbeatable at.

 

That number probably includes all diesel too. If you divide 134 billion by 300 million you get 446 gallons a person.

Obviously not every person in the US drives though.

 

And that's part of the reason why people commute.
They also wanted quiet, low crime and a large house with a large yard. Right now though, young people tend to prefer to live in cities. Combined with higher energy costs there's re-urbanization and downsizing.

Also, combine housing prices, working couples with a more difficult and less stable employment market and the result is more long-distance commuting. It isn't realistic to suggest that people simply move or change jobs so they don't have to commute. Sure, a 100 mile commute in a compact could require earning an extra $1200 per month but that's compared to walking to work, not owning a car and living in a home that costs the same amount.

For example, my wife and I commute in opposite directions. Her commute is 35 miles r/t and mine is 41.4 miles r/t. In less than a month's time my wife's taking a new job that reduces her r/t commute to 6 to 6.6 miles (but we still can't ride share) depending on the route she takes. But, this kind of job opportunity isn't something that comes up a lot.

 

Lets see, 134Billion is is 134,000 Million. 17/134,000 = .000126 = .0126% Don't see where you got the extra factor of 100.

I agree we should be doing our part.. the point here was not that the Prius is not good.. it was that the "if only the people doing long distance commutes" would switch it would solve the problem. Too many people want to say its someone else's problem, when the reality is that its everyone's problem.

And @Billnchristy 134Billion was just gasoline (including its additives) and did not include disel or heating oil. The US consumes about 70 Billion gallos of Diesel See EIA - Sorry! Unexpected Error


I think he PiP is a first baby step beyond the Prius and I just wish they had gone for a decent battery and allowed EV up to highway speeds. Toyota can do the tech, but wanted to maintain profits and a low price.
If they offered pack ranges 4kw 10kw 15kw, then people could have chosen what they need as an option. Maybe next-gen Prius will be designed to allow increased packs in a modular fashion.

 

I agree that people should live near to where they work. I've done it both ways, and a short commute is better. No commute is the best.

Unfortunately, I also understand why most people can't make it work. Even if the stars align and you manage to find that ideal job in an ideal location, odds are that one of the following will happen:

1) You get laid off.

2) Your company relocates to Timbuktu.

3) You have another kid an need a bigger house.

4) Your spouse takes a new job.

That's just a sample of the reasons that people end up with unreasonable commutes.

As a society, I wish we could do better in this area, but without better job stability it can't happen on a large scale.

Tom

 

Minimum freeway speed is 40 to 50 mph. Max EV speed of PiP is 62. So it is able to run in EV on every freeway and highway in America.

 

I routinely drive my entire 15 mile commute into Boston, on mostly EV, I see final MPG estimates on power off of between 160 to 350 MPG, thats not very much gasoline. When the traffic is moving at 65 MPH or faster, the PiP blends in the electricity with very low load on the engine, typically it shows as 99MPG+, I also charge at work, so my commute home is also mostly in EV.

I think offering the 4.4KW pack was fine for the 2012 PiP, it's simply what they could physically fit in the 3rd gen design. The next generation is due out in 2014 as the 2015MY, lets hope they figure out how to fit a 16KW pack in it, that will maximize the federal credit at $7,500, and be serious competition for EVs, it would give the next generation PiP 40 miles or more of EV, and the final price would not be much different than the current model (after rebate). It would be Toyotas "Volt killer"

 

I'll add my 2 cents. The driver and the poster are two different people. Same here in my household. The 2001 Prius gets 48 MPG when I drive and 40 MPG with the other driver. It's the same car in both situations. However, not having lost all sense neurons, I will not "blame" either. Or to repeat Jimbo's excellent point, calling a 12 mpg improvement disappointing is where the real problem is. The OP has a great car doing a good job of what it was built to do.

 

My 2 cents: having migrated from a great, average 47 mpg 2009 Prius to my PIP, which is averaging 69 mpg, I have no complaints. My commute is 6 miles one way. I do about a mile of that in ICE on the freeway - the rest in EV.

I wish my dad had lived to see and experience this car. When I bought my first Prius, in 2005, my dad, an engineer, was over the moon to have lived long enough to see that technology. He was amazed and thrilled that cars had come so far. Years before, as a student at Princeton, my dad had met Albert Einstein. He felt that Einstein would have loved the concept of the Prius. I can't even imagine how the PIP would have moved my dad!

I did my research when the PIP was announced and calculated whether it would fit my lifestyle. I did not expect miracles. My PIP has exceeded my expectations. In 3 or 4 years, I will move into my next PIP, which will probably take me way further on battery.

 

When we moved, my commute distance to my work didn't change (because the site moved). However, a couple of years later, we had a site closure and I had to get another job, which added 8 miles to my commute. Then that site closed and I got another job which added another 8 miles to my commute. The irony is, had we not moved, I'd be 3.5 miles away from my current place of employment rather than 35 miles away. But, we got a larger house, much much better school district, and much better weather.

I'd hate to move again to be closer to work, only to have my place of employment change again.

I make up for my long commute by being an efficient driver, slowing down and getting the best commuting car for my commute. Despite my 22,500 miles per year, I only use 380 gallons of gasoline (which is as much gas usage as a person who has an 8500 mile/year commute with a car that gets 22 mpg).

 

If I went 62 on the interstates here in Nashville I'd get run over; average speed, even where the speed limit is 65, is about 75.

I agree hat I *could* go 62 and use EV, but like most people, I just won't go that speed on interstates.