New Poll: Americans Shun Electrics

Last I heard, there are virtually no 480V quick charge stations around. 2ndly, I don't think quick charging is something you'd want to do much. Correct if wrong, but I think it will affect the battery life if done a lot. Clearly, BEVs are not suited for very long range travel. A Tesla can probably do from SF to Sac RT in a day, but you'd have to have a loose screw to want to jam from SF to LA in a Roadster. It would be 3 or so hrs. driving couple hundred+ miles, then plug in somewhere for 4 to ? hours and you could probably make it into LA.

 

Wow, you sound upset and full of fear. BEV's are just another option. Have you noticed some people who have EV's are very passionate about them, like darrelldd and DaveinOlyWA? There's a reason for that.

So, you have an EV, but have a long trip coming up. Not that difficult to rent a gas car. Doesn't Enterprise 'pick you up', so don't need to leave your Leaf at the rental lot.

Solutions and alternatives are needed, and that's what we're getting.

From DaveinOlyWA sig, looks like one could save (15k/400) * (30 - 13) ~ $640 per year in fuel costs per year over a Prius. That will help fund next Leaf battery.

 

When did gas vs. electric become all-or-nothing? In a mixed fleet, these objections don't apply.

I won't be getting a new job beyond Leaf's range. That is a promise.

 

Can't be mixed like that. Maybe gas with hybrids, yes, works, hybrids can do the job without pure gas cars, but pure electric cars cannot do the job without gas cars. Don't get me wrong, I like electric cars, but not like that.

Toyota did not charge for Prius one time and a half the price of a car with the same specs, to pay for their innovation, and Prius also saves you money.

Leaf does half the job a normal car does, with over$33000, and you have to endure heat or cold sometimes to save some electricity in order to get home; this is not innovation.

You never know, man.

 

The whole gas or electric argument is really quite moot, and for reasons that go waaaaaaaay beyond personal transportation.
Yeah...people use a lot of gas(oline) in cars. Mostly. Sometimes it's not all gas, but that's another religious fight.
Semi's, aircraft, trains and ships. What do they use as a power source? (hint: mostly....it's not electricity!)

So...the gooey black stuff is still going to be pretty important. Important enough to fight over?
Yup.
That means that somebody is going to yank it out of the ground.
All of it....unless the Myans really were smart enough to predict the end of our civilization, while failing to predict (or prevent) their own demise. Speaking of "end of civilization" just watch what happens if the transportation infrastructure (there's that word again!) grinds to a stuttering halt.
All of the people waving the "No War For Oil" signs would start screaming for the government to "do something!" before their signs hit the ground! That "something" usually means that a Carrier Battle Group gets (re)deployed...

While we're on the subject of oil...what are these "massive subsidies" that I keep hearing about?
I work in telecommunications (another crooked industry!) so I'm not an expert, but I'm thinking that the oil companies find the oil, extract it, refine it, transport it, and sell it. They do this for a profit, and the exact amount of this profit is anybody's guess---but since gas is less than a buck a gallon in some countries that I've visited, and over 8 bucks in others, simple logic suggests that governments might be making more of a profit on gasoline sales than big oil.
They're both not doing bad to be sure, and the frustration levels for the consumer aren't helped by the fact that "we pay what they say."

So...how is this all going to shake out?
Heck if I know! If I were that good at predicting the future, I wouldn't be working at the phone factory!
I'd be able to afford to drive any car I wanted to (even a Leaf or a Volt!) I could put an acre of solar panels up and go off the grid, and thumb my nose at people who have to "subsidize big oil or big government."

However (comma!) the Leaf would have to be delivered by ship. The solar panels and Volt would arrive by train or truck---built from components delivered by ships, aircraft, truck, trains...etc.

Crap!

 

'The job'? You write as if all cars must fit one, and only one, job specification.

This is false. Not even any existing gasoline or diesel fueled motor vehicles can do 'the job(s)'.

Electric cars are not yet ready for many, even most of the ~200 million consumers in the U.S. But they will do 'the job' for at least ten or so million of them, which far exceeds the near term electric car production capacity.

Well, you may be right. I can be no more sure of this than I am sure of never needing an F-350 SuperDuty SuperCab truck with a 6.7L diesel engine as a commuter vehicle.

But if either situation arises, I am far more likely to just retire.

 

ok, i personally think that we need to make MORE Americans not want to buy an EV. studies show that more than 8 million drivers could switch to a 100 mile EV that would satisfy nearly 100% of a persons transportation needs. well that is about a 5 year supply if we really kick it into gear, most likely a 10 year supply (which would be sad)

now i have one, so my overwhelming urge to get one has subsided a lot (my overwhelming urge to get TWO EVs has not unfortunately)

so, what we need to do is somehow stop EV'ers from talking about how efficient, cheap and easy to refuel EVs are otherwise, people who currently cant understand that in a two car household, more than 75% (that is 120 million households... a century of EVs!) could use an EV and save money along with the economy.

see, the problem is we dont need a 100% conversion to EVs we do produce about 30 something percent of our oil. i am not advocating buying an EV...as illustrated above, it will take decades to supply the cars. i am advocating ending our reliance on foreign oil.

one thinks that he is paying for my $7500 tax credit while he allows our country to borrow money to fuel his car with gas made from foreign oil. that dollar borrowed leaves this country never to return (unless it comes back to fund terrorist sleeper cells...now they do pay cash and pay well, but i rather get it back another way but NOT sending to them in the first place)

but you see, that tax credit was from money i made in the US that i spend to circulate money thru the US economy including my purchase of electricity from an American company that will pay its workers who will purchase goods and services from American businesses (even if foreign owned, its still taxes paid in America) that will eventually come back to me again in my paycheck because i work for an American Company.

so that dollar i spend on electricity i get to spend over and over and over. so what seems like a payout from the government for nothing is actually a very wise long term investment into the financial future of the United States.

so think about that dollar you are sending overseas to buy that gas... is it really a dollar. many think the real cost of gasoline is 250% what you pay...so that would be $10 a gallon in real value.

so if you think buying an EV is stupid, then dont buy one!! i am good with that!! whether you walk, ride a bike, or take the bus, it does not matter to me as long as we achieve our goal of NO FOREIGN OIL

 

See The problem here is our government, lobbyist and corupt politicians, because we have the oil here. They don't wanna drill, they had electric cars since 30 yers ago but they stopped that to, and we are still talking about " ending our reliance on foreign oil. "

And also the problem is people voting Republican or Democrat instead voting independent to send some signals to Washington.

 

Well I did say, I thought the infrastructure could be created relatively quickly. But the fact that you happened to live in a SMALL town where it was so cold every parking spot had an electrical outlet, does not mean a nationwide public infrastructure for the convenient recharging of EV vehicles on a mass scale exists. Its simply does not....yet....

 

And where did you get your post graduate degree in geology? No? Perhaps it's the oil industry telling you the U.S. crust is chock full of more oil you can burn in your RV? Or is your, "we have the oil here" statement based on something else.

.

 

That's in interesting question....
What is the real cost of a gallon of gas? (My personal guess is closer to 50% than 250)
How much does it really cost to pull 42 gallons (1 barrel) of oil out of the ground and crack it into 19.something gallons of gas?
I don't think anybody really knows.
Tax laws are so intertwined into multi-national corporations that even if somebody did know the right answer for a given country, nobody else would believe (or want to believe) the truth.

Buying an EV is far from stupid for some people...in fact, it's a slam-dunk home run for some folks....just like the "hybrid premium" a decade ago. Others?
Not so much.
That's far from a perfect analogy, since you can actually drive a hybrid more than a few hours, but you get my point.
Develop EVs? Heeeeellll yeah.
It's a win-win, and for right now there are a lot of people who are willing to buy the $3,000 Betamax machines (too bad that never caught on either! ) with a little help from some tax credits to help kick-start the technology.
Personally....I don't have a problem buying foreign oil. They stopped manufacturing it quite a long time ago....and it's not like we're using real money (or even our money!) to do it with.
We can leave "domestic" oil right where it is, and if we ever get our heads out and start trying to solve the energy problem, instead of scratching each other's eyes out in silly arguments over corn-versus-saw grass, or AC-versus-DC (no wait....we figured that one out! ) THEN we'll be in a position to avail ourselves of the "new" technology before we have to send oil crews into places like ANWR.
If not...we'll have a fall-back position (with the domestic reserves) and a few more years to do the noodle dance.
Oh yeah...I almost forgot. You can't eat oil.
I know... I live on the Gulf Coast.
It's pretty nasty stuff.
Ever been to the Middle East? I have.
It's pretty hard to grow stuff there.

If you ask me...China is the real chump in this "oil triangle."
There's an old saying....."If you owe the bank $100, then they own you. If you owe the bank a million bucks, you own the bank!"
You can grow lotsa things in China...(bamboo is pretty cool!) and they grow lots of food there.
Almost as much as they need!

 

You take the train, of course.

 

OK, not yet. Let's agree that it could be done quickly. I thought maybe the fact that it existed fifty years ago in the middle of nowhere might suggest that all those of us in the big modern city lack is the will.

 

Just checking in...do we still shun electrics?

Good. See ya tomorrow.

 

Big modern NYC got the first PUBLIC charging station July 14th, 2010. The charger is based in a paid parking garage. The first month of charging and parking was free and there after the parking rates were set by the garage owners. I do not know the rates but the charging fee will cover parking and charging. While there are other EV stations in NYC they are FLEET use only and not available to the general public. I do not want ot come accross as antiEVs, in fact I think they are a great way to move foward.

 

Could be for various reasons; job, family, friends, traveling.. Last time we visited Yellowstone there were alot of Prii

 

No, I'm saying that of the money we pay to pour gas into our tanks, approximately $2billion leaves our economy. It varies, and has been between one and two billion dollars for many years. My source, however, is super-top-secret. You'll have to crack the Google Code to figure it out!

 

What percentage of drivers are we talking about here? 16.7 hours of steady, non-stop driving at 60 mph? If this could ever be considered something we should design for, then I'd like somebody to stop the earth. I'm ready to get off.

 

You mean except for the 3-4,000 free public chargers that exist in CA today? Or is CA too small to count here? We rolled out chargers in advance of the cars before. We rolled out gas stations when we needed them. There's really nothing to get excited about here. EV infrastructure is easy. We just have to decide to do it. Easier than putting up street lights, and we managed millions of those, certainly.

 

Sorry folks. I promise this will be my last in this string of posts! I meant to put them all together in one post so everybody could skip over it.

I'm willing to change the word to ignorant if that helps. In general, drivers have very little idea of what they "need." They have a great handle on what they want, however. Even when people do know what they need, they have no idea how well or poorly an EV can meet that need - until they've tried. Reading about EVs doesn't help much. Spreading FUD about them helps even less. I get so tired hearing crap like this:

and

So I could have bought a $50,000 Lexus that would work for me... or a $30k Leaf that would work for me. But the Leaf would only work for me because I have money to "throw around?" What's the purpose of disparaging Leaf owners? Are they bothering you somehow?

And that is a great opinion! And please understand that most Leaf owners are finding the car to be everything they need in a car. Is it OK if the car is working for them, or should we try our level best to stop making them for the people who want them?

The "experimenting" happened back in the early 90's. And the cars proved to be fantastic, and useful for everybody who owned/leased them. The Leaf is just the latest example of a proven technology - battery technology that I've been driving as my main automobile for over ten years now.

So first of all, there are way more transportation options than the private automobile. More of my transportation miles are done by bicycle than by any automobile. Do you really think the only way to get places is to drive your car? Next... we'll likely never again have just ONE propulsion technology like we've had for the past 100 years. As more options come on line, people can choose what works best for them, instead of trying to make do with ONE option for every task. Next...You don't really think EVs will forever be like the Leaf is today, do you? Is the gas car you are driving today anything like the Model A? Or even the T? Of course we'll have longer range and faster charging. That isn't just pie in the sky dreaming... the techology exists for both. We just have to stop clinging to our gas cars so tightly so we can see the potential and huge benefits of EVs.

You claim that these posts aren't simplistic... and then you chime in with more of the same. What do you base your statements on? Feelings? Certainly not experience with the vehicles, nor a knowledge of their history or of their future.