New PiP Owners...More data please!!!

The result is very similar to a Gen 3 Prius with an Enginer 4KWH plug-in kit. Over longer commute, PiP's advantage is diminished.

 

I am not sure why Toyota doesn't allow deeper discharge. Most Lithium battery can do 80% DOD. An Enginer 4KWH add-on plug-in kit in a Prius can take 5kWh from the grid, equivalent to 4.25kWh usable energy, over 50% more as that in a PiP and it costs only $3495 premium.

 

Probably life cycle estimates. At 80% DOD it may only be good for 2000-3000 cycles. Fine for lots of applications but if you are looking at 2 charges per day (quite possible for the PiP), that could only only 4 years to hit 3000 cycles. What is the warranty? Using only 65% gives less impact so its good for my cycles. And if needed later they can keep up range by increasing the DOD (in software) years into the program.

 

Heat. As the battery discharges, internal resistance goes up which means heat rises dramatically. Toyota, being a very conservative company engineering wise, is extremely aggressive about heat management in all of their hybrid battery packs. And one of the easiest is to not let a battery discharge too low, whether its NiMH or Lithium.

 

10 years 150k miles in CARB states.

15k miles/year is average 41 miles/day. Pretty easy to charge it twice a day for the majority of those days if you can charge at work - that's 4400 cycles right there. Add in weekends, and you could easily get 5000 cycles after 10 years. And it's not like the battery stops being used after EV mode is done - it still gets used in regular HV duty after that with lots of small charge/discharges.

Add in the fact that lithium batteries deteriorate some while just sitting there and ages faster the higher the SOC (why do you think Toyota says not to let the car sit fully charged any longer than possible?), I'm surprised Toyota is using as much of the pack as they are.

GM is using a similar SOC range for the Volt (10.4 kWh usable out of 16 kWh 65%) except that on average, the PiP battery is used harder - it's air cooled, not water cooled, and with much smaller capacity the pack will be pushing much higher C rates of charge/discharge when in EV mode.

 

The added cost and lower range can mostly be attributed to the regulatory environment calling for 10 years warenties, as well as the differences in prospective customers.

Lets first look at the regulations. 10 years is a long time to warent any new battery technology. This regulation was put in place to punish hybrids versus pure evs, hydrogen, and natural gas cars. Since this warranty is mandatory to get that coveted hov sticker, toyota is including the warenty cost in every car. This is not the case with engineer.

The second is the difference between the adopters that are jumping through hoops to get a phev conversion versus buying one off the shelf. Those walking into a dealership may not understand that batteries degrade over time. The lower Soc helps to cover up this degradation. On the leaf the driver is allowed the choice of faster degradation and fully charging the battery, versus a lower soc and longer battery life.

 

I decided to take the "along the river" route to work today, which has a maximum speed of 55 mph. It was a cool spring morning (37°F) and the battery stated 13.0 miles of EV was available for the 17.3 mile trip.

The defroster would be needed to clear the windshields, so I knew the engine would run from time to time. What I didn't know was that each time it fire up, it would add 1/2 mile to the EV. So, I actually ended up at my parking spot with 1.6 miles of EV left still from the engine running briefly 3 times.

It was quite the journey. I didn't know what to expect. Discovering the "EV" emblem was actually an engine-off indicator was pretty sweet. Now everyone will know when 0 RPM is without needing an aftermarket gauge. The system does it all automatically too. The "just drive it" motto is very much something to continue promoting.

Anywho, the average for my commute to work ended up being 156 MPG. I can't wait for it to get warmer. Efficiency will easily go higher without the need for cabin heat.
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Interesting about the EV light. In some of the review videos for the V model this light can be seen flicking on and off. The pattern made me think it was indicating ICE off. There is some wording about this in the manual(V) but it wasn't clear.

From my post on the V forum:http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-v-main-forum/99045-electric-vehicle-indicator-vs-electric-vehicle-mode-indicator.html

"Does the EV Indicator on the Hybrid System Indicator light to indicate ev operation even if EV Mode has not been selected? Will it light to show warp stealth operation? Did anybody notice?

In section 02-02 pg 201 of the manual the EV Indicator is defined as
"The EV indicator comes on when
driving the vehicle using only the
electric motor (traction motor).".

Nothing is said about EV Mode being necessary for this operation.

Just as the Eco Indicator works independently of Eco Mode as it is available in Normal Mode also. Just wondering if EV indicator is the same."

and

"Yes the new V wagon. Wondering if the EV Indicator is active even when not in EV Mode like the Eco Indicator is for Normal Mode. It's a question of the wording in the manual and the lack of mention of this light in most of the reviews. I would like it to flick on and off when trying to get to the netzero energy state (glide) as it is in a better visual place. Being able to see it on a HUD would be even nicer."

So what is this light doing again and does it do it for all the new models?

 

Quick update (I've got an all-evening meeting starting in a few minutes, but there are photos to come later)...

I recharged at work this afternoon, after driving to the park at lunch to use up the remaining EV plus show off the new car.

Overall distance was 36.8 miles, with 0.4 miles of EV remaining upon reaching my driveway.

144 MPG was the resulting efficiency average.
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And what mode did you choose to drive in? Did you change modes along the way? Great numbers!

 

I decided to take a scenic detour, allowing me to enjoy unusually warm weather here (64°F) by driving through the suburbs the final chunk of the way. So, I switched to HV mode for the short 55 & 50 mph sections.

Still having EV available at the end of my commute certainly reinforced the study of real-world data Toyota had collected with the early model. The system is remarkably adept, seeking out efficiency opportunities pundants never addressed, wrecking any prior analysis reports they had come up with.

It's difficult to describe how dynamic the power-split system is, despite all the years of arguing with antagonists about the potential. But now finally seeing it in action, taking advantage of externally provided electricity, speaks for itself. The test-drive experience certainly will compel the curious to purchase.

There's a whole new excitement to the commute now. I feel like a newbie again!
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It is a compelling car with a lot of electricity to play around with, even for Prius enthusiasts. For the first time Prius owner, it is as easy as plug and just drive it.

What's your lifetime EV/HV ratio so far?

 

Congrats, John!

Looking forward to your reports.

 

Hey John, how are those videos coming along? Are you also capturing and writing up some info related to performance and driving characteristics?

Sorry, it's not like we're anxious or anything...

 

Here's my incomplete set of answers:

1. Basically the answer is zero. The HV operation does seem to attempt to put net zero charge into the battery. I think Toyota feels that anything else is reducing HV mileage, and that is best done with "shore power"

2. I apologize for not knowing what "glide" means, unless it means "warp stealth", which would not occur until after 62 mph in any case. I was able to stay in EV past 62, up to around 65 before it switched. But RPMs stayed zero.

3. There's a definite display switchover as the battery gets below one mile. The display becomes the previous 'thick lined' battery display of the pre-PIP days and the car simply reverts to pre-pip style (but without the EV switch!)

4. Tough question. Subjective answer: A LOT! Going up a hill kills the EV battery faster than nearly anything else except acceleration, which if you think about it, is exactly the same phenomenon! I often find myself pressing into HV mode when going up hills to avoid depleting the battery (and at higher speeds).

Worst mileage so far: a 41 mile trip of mostly highway, using EV at each end. 62mpg. Charging at one end only.

Chuck

 

Glide is where there is no connection between the engine and motor to the wheels. Like coasting but without regen. Warp (AKA super) stealth mean electricity only drive at speeds greater than say 41 for the lift back. Warp stealth in a PiP would be anytime electricity only is used at speeds greater than 62 mph.

Wow, can't wait for mine.

 

Have you tried gliding in neutral? should be the same as your 2005.

 

GenII MFD may show no arrow but the HV battery can be drained a few hp. Toyota fixed/made it more accurate in GenIII, it seems.

The bottom line, don't worry about the arrow being displayed. The true glide is very rare. I'll have to monitor the HV battery in Neutral gear. I think I saw a few hp drain as well.

 

I've got a ton going on all at the same time. This evening's sharing was... http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-prius-plug-in/105077-securing-charging-cable.html#post1495197
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