Navigation Input Override (Speed Sensor Bypass)

ok. i just saw this post, granted have been in and out and posts happen so fast its easy for them to get buried since i rarely venture beyond the 2nd page of "view new posts"

but thankfully (as usual) it wandered off topic (im guessing by the way the last few posts have gone) and its stiill active.

so if i understand this correctly. all i have to do is cut the wire in question and thats all there is to it? (have no interest what so ever in having Nav not work at any time)

 

just trying to help avoid lawyerizing

 

Yes... good point...

I would be willing to sign a waiver or he could just release a nice disclaimer form. Too bad we can't just shake hands to do it.

sounds like Hawkmoon is going to iron out the bugs pretty well before anything is released.

 

ok, is switch needed? will cutting wire, enable NAV all the time? is there drawback besides the safety issues?

hope there isnt, cause i jus snipped the wire. i guess if it has other drawbacks, i can wire switch, but if not, i leave as is.

 

I thought we were going to try to stop the lawyer bashing (I know some think it's fashionable), but the business world may not always work the way you think. I assume that you have lawyer issues, but they are not to blame for everything. Do you also blame the legal system for not being able to buy a car with a gas tank that explodes on impact, or for being forced to have a windshield, or for being forced to have an airbag deploy between you and the steering wheel, etc.?

The decision probably has everything to do with risk of injury and I don't think they would need a team of lawyers to tell them that. The subject may have just come up in an engineering meeting and they made the decision. Or maybe the plan was to allow input if the passenger seat was occupied, but the accounting people decided that would be too expensive. Or maybe the marketing people thought it would be a hard sell with all the advanced safety features. I wasn't there, so there could be many reasons that prompted the decision by Toyota's business people. How many other auto manufacturer's allow the driver to type away on the Nav while driving? I hope there are not too many.

I have dealt with executives that really want their products to be safe -- not simply to avoid being sued (they usually carry insurance for that anyway) but because they want to make a quality product. They certainly don't want to see someone needlessly hurt using their product. I'm also sure that Toyota wants you to buy another Toyota. But they must know that you can't buy another Toyota if you kill yourself (or even someone else) while typing an address into you Nav unit at 80 mph or even 30 mph on a winding road. I can see why someone at Toyota did what they did.

So its entirely possible that Toyota just wants to be a good citizen and make a safer product, for which product liability cases have a significant influence. Now maybe you would prefer to make your own choices, but I think it is too simplistic to "blame" (or thank) the lawyers.
:focus:

 

I've had good and I've had bad... bad meaning I wasn't represented.. but the lawyer was "if you know what I mean"...

But your right.. this thread is not about lawyers per se.

I honestly don't think Toyota is being a good citizen...I see little or no big business thats not about money... its all about legal issues and the fear they may take the money away!.... IMO...of course.... but we can agree to disagree.

 

I used this one for my 2006 and I thought it was very smooth and easy to use... only 2.99

But here is a whole boatload of other choices.... just from radio shack.

 

oh bummer


oh, well, only took 10 mins to take apart. will get around to it one of these days

 

OK, I threw this schematic together fairly quickly, and I haven't yet built it all, so please, nobody use it without understanding it and checking it for possible errors. Once I get it totally working, I will post a final schematic.

NOTE: U1A and U1B are part of the same IC: LM556CN, Dual 555 Timer, available at Radio Shack. The 200K Pot is actually a 100K pot in series with a 100K fixed resistor (since I had a 100K pot lying around...)

Update: Removed schematic - it had flaws. See my later post (#145) for new schematic.

 

hawkmoon77 had responded to me about the schematic when I think he was referring to someone else (perhaps jayvee).

I'm interested in a non-hardware solution for the NAV system. I respect what you folk are doing, but I don't like the 'dead reckoning' issues presented by the override.

I'm especially intrigued about the software direction because the service manager at our local Toyota dealership said there was a software override for the new 2010's (different from the way it had been done on previous models). But when I went back to talk with him about this software override direction, now he won't say a word about it. Said he should never have said anything in the first place... sigh.

But I'm hopeful that this SW override direction will eventually leak into the wild. (Mostly because I don't have the time to go figure it out for myself.)

 

I think the reason your service manager won't say anything now is because he's full of it and doesn't want to embarrass himself by admitting he had no idea what he was talking about. I've got a full Techstream unit hooked to mine and there is NOTHING in there that would allow you to simply unlock it. Right now, I'm looking into using a hybrid DVD with version 5.1 firmware and version 8.1 (current) maps. The v5.1 firmware allowed the old finger dance unlock method and some Lexus owners with Gen5 NAV systems seem to be having luck with this approach. Evidently it comes with the downside of having to click 'ok' to the nag screen at boot-up every time, but that seems a small price to pay to get back the finger dance unlock. If it works I will post a writeup of what I did.

 

well, just got back from dinner. the only thing that cutting the wire did as far as i could tell is reduce the resolution of the screen. would this be normal?

also, trace route does not work, but i kinda attribute that to lower resolution. wondering if i loosened up something else while doing this. i guess i will splice a switch in sooner or later and see if that clears it up. as far as functionality goes, nothing changed.

 

No, sorry, I think you cut the wrong wire. I wouldn't even hazard a guess which one... There is no change in resolution if you cut the right one - just a loss of dead reckoning and a jerky cursor (car indicator.) But if you connect a switch (or simply reconnect the two wires temporarily), and the resolution returns, you'll know that you have some repairs and a new wire search to do...

 

You may be correct.

Might I ask how you came by a Techstream unit? They run about $8K don't they?

But they also only support up to 2007 models (or am I wrong?). At least that is what an independent Toyota repair shop said. They also said they had to get a new unit before they would be able to see all of the new 2010 info.

I don't have any first hand info on this, I'm only going by what my friend at the repair shop said (and I'm taking him at his word).

But if so, there may still be info lurking in the new 2010s...

 

You can try it and report back.... I remember we were playing around with that with my 2006 and it wouldn't accept the older firmware burn't CD's while the older cars would. Meaning either the CD wasn't burn't to adequate specs for the new DVD models, or the firmware itself wouldn't work. Then there was some who tried to use the newer firmware but the older CD's..with the newer cars don't think that worked either. Now that we have the GenIII, I suspect the firmware is different again. I do remember the service manager said the motherboard for the Gen III was diff than the GenII. If you get it to work.. that will be great! But anything is worth a try.

 

I obtained the Techstream software from... well, let's just say I obtained it. The software will install on any laptop. A J2534 compatible interface cable (I got mine from Drew Tech) then allows the laptop to talk to the car. All Techstream versions 4.12 and higher support the 2010 Prius - maybe some lower versions also, but I know my 4.12 works fine and I have changed several of the customizable settings as well as registered new TPMS sensors and added a key. There is a newer version (4.20, I think) available, but I have not been able to... ahem... obtain... that version yet. I have a thread on the subject in the Accessories/Modifications forum entitled "Programming Ourselves?" if you want to read more.