My PHEV PRIUS Test: Apples vs Oranges

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by hill, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    bad: More weight feel; does not have HUD, have to return it tomorrow:(

    good: A very breathtaking EV mode :D; and also confirms 195-15inch are adequate for a Prius ;); good with the cord (~3,5kwh for 20km); good without the cord also


    The rest, same as our ZVW30: gentle ICE running in, good acceleration, excelent MPG while in HV, good room.
     
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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    No HUD? That's strange, our loaner DOES have it ... but no backup camera. It has the fog/dlr's that package 5 has ... but the rear view mirror is bare bones - no home link, for instance. It has the sks, but no lock buttons.
    As for weight? I feel the extra weight, but IMO it's not a 'bad' thing ... just a different thing ... like having another passenger in the rear.
    Lucky? Oh I AGREE! This treat used up all my luck for this millenium! And I feel very fortunate too.

    Yesterday's 20 mile drive home was the best mpg so far (see attached photo). Around 4pm, we went down to the local fudruckers restaurant to show off the Plug-in. We brought the Leaf, and there were 2 other local Leafers as well, that came down to show (per my request) off their rides. I meant to have all the pic's up for this morning, but I poop'ed out ... I'll get 'em later today. I've pretty much maxed out the mpg gauge on the (relatively) short 20 mile drive to work, so next, I'll maybe do a longer run (50 miles or so) just to see if I can drag these way crazy high numbers down.
    :p
     

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  3. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    In Pt they came with SKS, Navigation except rear camera, no HUD and no rain sensor/wiper blade (it's manual, as for what I've seen/used)...
     
  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    The Leaf obviously has 'trade-off's'. EV's have WAY less re-fuel infrastructure, which means you actually have to think, and not just get in and drive. I find it mentally more reassuring to just automatically plug in the Leaf when ever I arrive at a destination in the Leaf (if possible) .... just in case my subsequent driving trips are long trips. With the Prius PHEV, running out of juice is not the great urgency like in the Leaf. The Prius PHEV gives you the luxury of not having to think. IMO the Leaf forces you to not depend on gas, so it forces you to think. For me, that's a plus. For other's, not so.
     
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  5. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

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    Does the car give you any information about how much gas is burned in EV mode (such as driving on the highway over 62mph)?

    I read some speculation that burning gas in EV mode would just time shift your EV miles to later when you didn't have to use gas. Do you find coming off the highway that there is an extended EV range available or did your EV miles go down while driving over 62mph?
     
  6. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    EV miles left go down at the same, because the majority of energy comes from batt during EV. No shift, that I was aware of.
     
  7. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Well, the alternative is that the excess energy makes a big rainbow behind the car.

    I know Volt fans love to wave the 62 mph limit of the Prius PHV as if it was a big deal, but you and most other Volt fans do not really understand the limit. > 62 mph does not mandate petrol consumption, it mandates ICE spin. Nothing prevents the ICE spin energy to be sourced from the traction battery if the demand is low enough and the battery SOC is high enough (how low and how high are software determined.) I travel in 'EV' mode at greater than 62 mph in my Prius routinely, although the window of SOC and power demand is narrow.

    IF the ICE consumes fuel and thereby sends energy to the transmission, less energy will be demanded from the traction battery. This is how the HSD works. It does not matter if the traction battery is my Prius' measly 0.6 kwh, or something greater.

    If I demand 20 kw --
    and 15 kw comes from the ICE, 5 kw comes from the battery
    or if 20 kw comes from the ICE, 0 kw comes from the battery ...
     
  8. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

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    I assure you I do understand, and I don't think it is a big negative for the PHV, in fact I think it is its strength, using the most efficient power system all the time is how it gets the best mileage in the world. I think the PHV is a great idea.

    I am curious about how the car uses the available fuel sources. I suspected, as telmo744 confirmed, that it was still primarily depleting the battery in EV mode with some mechanical assist, not switching back and forth between CD and CS.

    I had a similar discussion with another volt owner on a different forum who was upset that the onboard system tracked some miles he traveled without gas as CS mode. HE had already reached the SOC to trigger CS mode so the car was making different decisions about power needs and sources, its not so much the source of the power as the algorithm that changes between the modes.

    I am mostly interested from actual testers because I wonder how the mileage for that extra consumption is calculated, particularly when CS miles are very low or even zero. (ie travel 8 miles in EV but burn .1 gallons of gas)
     
  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Gwmort, the production version will let you choose to either:

    1) Blend gas and battery above 60mph. Since it will use both, battery maybe drained off the highway.
    2) Turn on HV mode to retain the charge for later EV local miles
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    So long as your understand that 'CS' can mean ICE only does not have to be ICE only.

    I have wondered about the split between IC and battery sourced energy in the Prius PHV too, and I do not know the answer. From my POV so long as the IC engine is being used in its most efficient power band I am satisfied. If 'HV' mode in the PHV is the same as the Prius then all I have to do is keep ICE rpm > 1500 and less than 3000. Easily accomplished with a scangauge even if the car does not come with an rpm meter.
     
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Wow I got a lot of catching up to do. Here's a few shots from yesterday down at the gear- head meet & greet. Yesteryear, meets the future
    :p
    Many of the motor heads were intrigued with the electrics. A few scoffed, mumbling all the typical FUD about:
    -9 years for the break even pay off . . . . .
    -we've got plenty of oil, it's just an oil company conspiracy . . . . . .
    -they just move the smog from the tail pipe to the coal fired plant ...

    But that was ok! A simple response like "when's the payoff on that dual super charger ... when's the payoff on the vette ... when's the payoff on the SUV ... etc ... it get's people thinking! But back to the pic's:
     

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  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    oh! . . . sorry about the delay. I'm thinking this is the screen you wanted? After getting home yesterday, "she-who-must-be-obeyed" drove the dog snot out of it . . . then again, today, too. We got the call today; "we're coming to take it back tomorrow"

    :Cry:
    Back to normal life.
    (sour grapes ...) ooh well, it's for the best ... I'm not getting anything else done driving this sucker all over the landscape. Yea, I felt like a used car salesman at the restaurant yesterday ... but it was a lot of fun ... both the driving as well as answering the inquiries.

    USB, you'll have to make what ever interpretation you can from the picture ... I'm not up on my Gen III screens like I oughta be.

    Back to reality!

    .
     

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  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Are all 387 miles by you? What was the overall MPG at the end of your "turn" before giving it back?
     
  14. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    tpfun, can you answer my question?
     
  15. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    OMGZWTFLOLZRUFKM?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!

    You took a picture of the BATTERIES in the PHV?! Tpfun witll CREAM HIS PANTS! since no one ever took a picture (of the plain steel box) ever before in the history of the internets!
     
  16. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

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    If you could post your total miles traveled, total EV miles, and total gallons consumed during your family's test I would much appreciate it.
     
  17. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    love the comparison pix of the Leaf verses Prius under hood shot. makes a HUGE statement on the viability of electric.

    but cant go with the "comfort" statement of having gas to fall back on. The Leaf makes a great option in a two car family. if you only need one car, then the plug in makes sense. during my 13 weeks of Leafness, there has only been 3 times when the Prius was driven in non commute mode and all those times were because the Leaf had already left the building. those 3 times could have been done by the Leaf, but all were too far to be covered by a PHEV.

    i deal with customer education on a daily basis. (some call it tier 1 tech support) making the Leaf work for anyone as a 2nd car (or first choice car) simply is a question of understanding what the Leaf can do and the resources one has available to make it work.

    i do have access to a multitude of charging options away from home and other than my 122.8 mile adventure, have never used any to provide any significant range boost and it still has not really hampered me in anyway.

    last week, i drove over 300 miles but only plugged in on 5 of those 7 days. i find the Leaf is really a very minimal compromise and i have to pay for my electricity

    P.S. the above in no way infers that i am not still interested in a PLEV to replace my current Prius. but with 20,000 miles on it, i think i will hang onto it just a bit longer
     
  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Not being familiar with the Gen III resets, I'm not certain that the mileage on the screen is/was all our driving. When my wife drove (about 1/2 of the total) it around, the lithium pack was depleted. Even so, she was averaging 48mpg on her (lead foot driving style) trips ... which typically lasted 25 miles each way. Because I frequently had full use of the lithium pack, and because I have a ton of hyper mile experience, it was no problem maintaining 99's on my 20 mile commutes.

    I never refuled during the drives ... it had one pip over the 1/2 tank, and as of today, it has 2 pips under the 1/2 tank mark ... so again, I'm coming up short on that data. I needed more time!
    .
     
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  19. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Understood. Multiple drivers complicate things and it won't reflect as a typical use.
     
  20. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

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    I don't know, between a lead-foot and a hyper-miler it might give a good average.

    Are these models the production versions or as these the ones that still have a NiMh battery in addition to the lithium ion packs?