My Concerns with the New Prius

Also in the small market. I drive a lot, often for work, so I want to both save money and have a good time doing it.

Funnily enough, power does actually make a difference in terms of safe, stress-free, on-time arrival. If I'm not speeding, acceleration is what makes up time for me - getting back up to speed from a light and catching the next light before it turns. 0-60 mph, the ultimate silly metric, is actually something one does several times in a drive on semi-rural highways with stoplights. Most importantly, when you drive a more powerful vehicle normally, you are further from pushing its limits - for me, that might be 3000 rpm climbing steep highway grades at the speed limit, instead of 4000 in a Prius, or "normal'' acceleration from a stop instead of "slow."

So I'm most likely getting a 2023 Prime SE as soon as I can.

Had the Gen 5 Prime specs not been what they are, I would have upgraded from my 2014 Prius to a Camry. 176hp in a 2.5L is really close to my dad's Outback, which is plenty powerful, not even counting the hybrid system. The shiftable eCVT is the next best thing to a P(H)EV on downgrades, far superior to whatever regular-Prius B-mode is. And nearly 700 miles of range is nothing to sneeze at. I still might end up getting a Camry, depending on Gen 5 Prime availability, markups, and tire size and whether I can stomach premium fuel.

Almost. Tesla still has a few downsides such as exclusive service (and even charging), less-than-Toyota reliability, and Elon Musk if you care about that sort of thing. Not dealbreakers for everybody, but it's nice to have an alternative.

And for now, it's still easier to fill up with premium than to Supercharge / CCS in a given location and in a hurry.

Things will change dramatically over the next decade and my next fun-work vehicle will be a M3LR, bZ3, or Aptera.

 

Gen 3 appears to still have more cabin space!

 

how can you tell?

 

Oops, wrong thread

 

People are not in a mood in general.
Covid, war on Ukraine, energy crisis, strong inflation and many other aspects just add to people not being all that happy or comfortable to enjoy a lot of things.

It will get back to normal, but it might take a while. For a lot of us it is not our first rodeo when it comes to economic depression ... and it is probably not the last we experience.

 

buying more Christmas presents than they can afford should make them feel better. at least until the cc bill comes.

 

Anyone know how many years the new Lithium (Li-ion) battery might last compared with the older NiMH battery? My understanding is that while the newer Li-ion batteries are smaller and lighter in weight, the number of times they can be recharged is fewer than the older NiMH battery type, but I really don't know.

And why not a LiFePO battery, which can be recharged many times? I'm sure there are many reasons. Just curious.

 

I don't think there is any reason to not expect the Li-ion pack last as long as the NiMH. Remember the NiMH lasts as long as it does because the BMS babies it. Li-ion is still coddled, but doesn't need to be as pampered as the NiMH. Which let's Toyota cut weight by using a physically smaller pack.

They've been using Li-ion as far back as the three row Prius v/+/alpha.

LFP has lower energy density. The weight savings are less when used in the hybrid. For the PHEV, it means shorter range, or losing space somewhere.

 

my is like new after 10 years, 85k. europe has older ones, not sure how they are doing

 

I bought my 2010 new in July of 2009, and have only 117k miles on it. Now at 13+ years, so far with no hint that the traction battery is getting old, what might show up?

 

My first 12 months of ownership, it averaged 44.4 mpg. The last 12 months 44.3. So not a big change over all the years. The mpg goes down considerably in winter, which is expected, so I average over a whole year. (Based on actual miles and fuel, not the car's indicated mpg, which has always been too high.) And over the lifetime of the car, you can see it below.

When I first got the car, I drove on the first tankful very gently, to see what I could average. The second tankful I drove more average (not quite like a nutcase), and the average was lower, but not by a lot. Since then I tend to just drive "normal Prius", and don't worry too much about mpg. But I do track it faithfully with every fill up.

 

Personally, I use the Dr. Prius app to occasionally(6 months-ish) check the status of my battery. If the app ever ends up saying my battery is going into bad territory, I'll take the car to a dealership to get the battery tested with the Toyota equipment.

My car is the same age as yours(bought new in Sept of 2009) but with 85k miles. It's spent most of its life in North Dakota with its temperature extremes(-40F to 105F), so I'm feeling pretty good with the Dr Prius battery rating of average.

 

Never heard of that app. Checking it out, there are quite a few negative reviews about crashing and inconsistent reports. But you seem to find it helpful...?

 

Like I said, I only use it a couple times a year. And I would never use it to make a money decision on its own. I think I saw someone on here talk about it a few years ago when I was lurking and trying to find an answer to a different problem. I know that getting the correct OBD2 reader is very important.

I also wouldn't recommend getting it until spring. The battery testing really needs to be done at a more normal temperature than what we get here in the upper plains during winter. The first time I tried it a couple winters ago on a very cold day, it gave me a reading of "needs replacement" (38%). A few months later I tried it on a nice day(60s or 70s) and I got a reading of 'good'(60ish%). I forgot to check it again this fall before the temps dropped, so I don't know what I'm currently at.

I doubt it's super accurate, but I think it's one of the few tools we have as Prius owners to see what's actually going on in our batteries, cell by cell, without expensive equipment. But I'm nowhere near an expert and there might be far better choices out there. It's a low priority for me, so I've never gone looking.

My only tip would be to aim for consistency with the conditions of your testing. Same outside temperature, same procedures. And treat the results as a rough ballpark.

 

I had a similar experience with my Gen 2 (2006) when the battery failed, at 7 years old and 273k KM. A few days before it failed, I noticed the fuel economy got noticeably worse - in ideal temperatures in May - but the real hint was the rapid fluctuations from 1-2 bars to fully charged and then back down to very low, in very short distance, with no reason to do so, like a big downhill. IIRC, I remember the battery fully charging or discharging while I sat stationary at a traffic light.

Anyway, my Gen 3 (PiP 2014) battery hasn’t failed through 208k KM, though I have noticed the EV range is lower over the last 6 or months, about 15km on a charge now, rather than 16-17km, and my ChargePoint registers about 2.4-2.5kWh per charge on average, rather than 2.6-2.7kWh when it was newer, so about an 8-10% decrease, which I suspect that is just natural degradation in the “heathy” range after 8+ years and 208k KM…

But I digress…. I just hope I can get my hands on a ‘23 Prime before anything expensive goes.

 

Why do gas-stations list the price to 3 decimal points and include 9/10¢ on the advertised price?

 

I agree with you Sarge, and argue the same can be said for the standard Prius with its smaller traction battery over the Prime or any plug in hybrid. Why drag all that extra weight around? I’m convinced that my variant has the smallest carbon footprint of just about any of the electrified vehicles