Moveon.org's NY Times ad. . .

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Wildkow, Sep 12, 2007.

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Do you agree with the Moveon.org ad?

  1. Yes

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  2. No

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  3. I don't know

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  4. I'll spin this in my post below.

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  5. I won't answer but I will write something completely off base below.

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  1. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 12 2007, 09:57 AM) [snapback]511224[/snapback]</div>
    this is getting tougher and tougher. its not you, it is the attack on the four star general that i find disgusting. do you think he is lying?

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 12 2007, 11:00 AM) [snapback]511276[/snapback]</div>
    moveon.org accused the general of lying to us - of treason. you think he is lying to us? what do you make of the ny times giving them a big discount on that ad? they are making fox news look fair and balanced.

    all the news they think is fair to print :lol:
     
    #21 dbermanmd, Sep 12, 2007
  2. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 12 2007, 09:57 AM) [snapback]511224[/snapback]</div>
    this is getting tougher and tougher. its not you, it is the attack on the four star general that i find disgusting. do you think he is lying?

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 12 2007, 11:00 AM) [snapback]511276[/snapback]</div>
    moveon.org accused the general of lying to us - of treason. you think he is lying to us? what do you make of the ny times giving them a big discount on that ad? they are making fox news look fair and balanced.

    all the news they think is fair to print :lol:
     
    #22 dbermanmd, Sep 12, 2007
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 12 2007, 10:03 AM) [snapback]511277[/snapback]</div>
    It wouldn't be the first time...nor will it be the last.
    But no, I don't think he's blatantly lying, I think he's spinning the facts and avoiding the whole truth as all good politicians are wont to do.


    I haven't said much about the discount b/c I don't know the facts there. Can you point me to something.
     
    #23 efusco, Sep 12, 2007
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 12 2007, 10:03 AM) [snapback]511277[/snapback]</div>
    It wouldn't be the first time...nor will it be the last.
    But no, I don't think he's blatantly lying, I think he's spinning the facts and avoiding the whole truth as all good politicians are wont to do.


    I haven't said much about the discount b/c I don't know the facts there. Can you point me to something.
     
    #24 efusco, Sep 12, 2007
  5. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 12 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]511281[/snapback]</div>
    how did he spin the truth? you say he is not blatantly lying - is he lying at all?

    also, there is a huge difference from opposing the war than attacking and accusing a four star general of lying - huge difference - which is what moveon.org did.
     
    #25 dbermanmd, Sep 12, 2007
  6. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 12 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]511281[/snapback]</div>
    how did he spin the truth? you say he is not blatantly lying - is he lying at all?

    also, there is a huge difference from opposing the war than attacking and accusing a four star general of lying - huge difference - which is what moveon.org did.
     
    #26 dbermanmd, Sep 12, 2007
  7. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 12 2007, 08:11 AM) [snapback]511285[/snapback]</div>
    No, it is the same IMO. Being a 4-star general means nothing to me in regards to ones ability to lie or spin the truth. I do not idolize or afford someone special treatment due to rank or station beyond what I would bestow on any normal citizen. :)
     
    #27 F8L, Sep 12, 2007
  8. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 12 2007, 08:11 AM) [snapback]511285[/snapback]</div>
    No, it is the same IMO. Being a 4-star general means nothing to me in regards to ones ability to lie or spin the truth. I do not idolize or afford someone special treatment due to rank or station beyond what I would bestow on any normal citizen. :)
     
    #28 F8L, Sep 12, 2007
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    David,
    Did you read the ad and look at the multiple links? There are clearly areas of unclarity if not outright fabrications and manipulation of the data. I you can choose to disagree with some of that, but the aggregate is hard to dispute and clearly paints a very different picture than what Patraeus presented. So yea, that's spinning and suggests untruth/lies.
     
    #29 efusco, Sep 12, 2007
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    David,
    Did you read the ad and look at the multiple links? There are clearly areas of unclarity if not outright fabrications and manipulation of the data. I you can choose to disagree with some of that, but the aggregate is hard to dispute and clearly paints a very different picture than what Patraeus presented. So yea, that's spinning and suggests untruth/lies.
     
    #30 efusco, Sep 12, 2007
  11. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    Move on is a marketing tool. As with all PR and marketing, you must take it with a grain of salt. Much like a white house report.
     
    #31 Darwood, Sep 12, 2007
  12. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    Move on is a marketing tool. As with all PR and marketing, you must take it with a grain of salt. Much like a white house report.
     
    #32 Darwood, Sep 12, 2007
  13. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Sep 12 2007, 11:20 AM) [snapback]511292[/snapback]</div>
    than the ny times is part of that tool too

    and no i do not, i find it disgusting that they accused a four star general of betraying us. too bad you dont as do most other democrats along with you. says lots.
     
    #33 dbermanmd, Sep 12, 2007
  14. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Sep 12 2007, 11:20 AM) [snapback]511292[/snapback]</div>
    than the ny times is part of that tool too

    and no i do not, i find it disgusting that they accused a four star general of betraying us. too bad you dont as do most other democrats along with you. says lots.
     
    #34 dbermanmd, Sep 12, 2007
  15. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    Where did I say i did not?
    It's S.O.P. and both parties have always behaved this way.
     
    #35 Darwood, Sep 12, 2007
  16. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    Where did I say i did not?
    It's S.O.P. and both parties have always behaved this way.
     
    #36 Darwood, Sep 12, 2007
  17. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 12 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]511309[/snapback]</div>
    Yea and you were discusted when I mentioned that US soldiers had commited rape and murder of innocent civilians in Iraq...but you shut up when I provided proof.
    It's not discusting to point out facts no matter who they're about. If these were complete fabrications meant only to slander then you can be disgusted...whether those fabrications were against a 4-star general or a serial murderer. Be offended by the act, not the person against whom it's made.
     
    #37 efusco, Sep 12, 2007
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 12 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]511309[/snapback]</div>
    Yea and you were discusted when I mentioned that US soldiers had commited rape and murder of innocent civilians in Iraq...but you shut up when I provided proof.
    It's not discusting to point out facts no matter who they're about. If these were complete fabrications meant only to slander then you can be disgusted...whether those fabrications were against a 4-star general or a serial murderer. Be offended by the act, not the person against whom it's made.
     
    #38 efusco, Sep 12, 2007
  19. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 12 2007, 11:57 AM) [snapback]511320[/snapback]</div>
    You will notice that some of those accusations proved to be false - i have always believed unlike some including jihad jack murtha that people (even our member of the military) are innocent until proven guilty. yes there are some bad apples in the military - probably far fewer than in our general population -- 1.5 MILLION Americans have served in Iraq and Afghanistan - how many crimes have they committed?? and what is the % of those committing crimes vs the total % who have served.

    it is not pointing out facts when they accuse a four star general who is in command of US forces there of "betraying us". that is libel and slander. you should be offended by that to - unfortunately you are not and neither are a majority of liberal democrats - and the reasons are fascinating.
     
    #39 dbermanmd, Sep 12, 2007
  20. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 12 2007, 11:57 AM) [snapback]511320[/snapback]</div>
    You will notice that some of those accusations proved to be false - i have always believed unlike some including jihad jack murtha that people (even our member of the military) are innocent until proven guilty. yes there are some bad apples in the military - probably far fewer than in our general population -- 1.5 MILLION Americans have served in Iraq and Afghanistan - how many crimes have they committed?? and what is the % of those committing crimes vs the total % who have served.

    it is not pointing out facts when they accuse a four star general who is in command of US forces there of "betraying us". that is libel and slander. you should be offended by that to - unfortunately you are not and neither are a majority of liberal democrats - and the reasons are fascinating.
     
    #40 dbermanmd, Sep 12, 2007
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