Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to HSD.

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

If Prius started at $40k, I don't think it will be successful as it is now. If Prius had $7,500 tax credit and sold only 8,600 the first year, I don't think it will have a future.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Not sure why you think that's BS, if that is what his driving and charging patterns yield. Mine must be similar (and the driving patterns have not changed from my last hybrid car). I've used 3.5 gallons of my last tank full and have gone over 9,600 mi since last May and charge whenever I'm home or at work.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Check out voltstats.net there are 2 people with > 2000mpg. This is 600 out of 6000 users.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

If he used that little gas, the question is how many kWh was used instead?

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

and how many of those kwhs had to be imported from other nations that want to harm us?

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

I was not implying which fuel is better. Just want to know the quantity for the electricity since it was given for gas and we know Volt can consumes both.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

In CS mode, the ICE is in series hybrid mode. Meaning the ICE drives a generator and then the generator drive the motor. This is double conversion and got twice the lost in efficiency.
Assuming both get 90% efficient, twice of 90% = 90% x 90% = 81%.
If the ICE alone can achieve 50mpg, after the lost 50mpg x 81% = 40.5 mpg.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

I wonder were you got that information?...

My readings over G21 project gave me the idea that Prius requisite was to "comfortably transport 4 adults", not to be designed as a 4 seater!

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

This is not true. It has been covered so many times. Why do we continue?

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

It is part-true, undeniably.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

There must be a reason why 99% (probably literally) of cars with a second row seat 5, not 4. It's certainly not a wash; people would rather 5 seats than 4. The reason it has 4 seats is to work around engineering constraints and nothing else. They simply needed that space to hold hardware and couldn't afford it be another seat.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Because it is true. Under US06 cycle, Volt is in the series mode 16% of the time as Jeff N provided the breakdown from a SAE paper.

Under other cycles with lower speed, that percentage should be much higher.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

That is not how one gets the CS mode of 40mpg. CS Highway is generally using the parallel/series mode.

The Volt ICE is in series mode when it more efficient for it to be in series, and in combined parallel/series mode with that is more efficient.

The Volt ICE is not as efficient (or as large) as the Prius ICE which uses Atkinson an a cycle which is more efficient but less powerful, and has a very wide sweet spot over RPMs. The Volts Otto-miller is less efficient to beging with and has a narrower BSFC sweet spot. (I've never seen a comment why the Volt did not go that route, since the EV motors could handle the initial start torque needs..)

The epicyclic gearing in the Volt, and the Prius, has a fixed split of torque for power-splits, depending on RPM variations on the elements to deliver different output speeds and power. To make the system efficient any excess from the ICE is use to drive the generator to store battery power, and other times the battery+motor is used to supplement the ICE power. However with the narrower good BSFC range for the volt ICE, and the difference in configuration in the epicyclic gearing the Volt cannot use the parallel/series configuration as efficiently at low speeds or at high-load, only in the middle of its power range needs. At the extremes is more efficient, even given the double losses, for it to use the pure series model.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

I can't help you on the original car's usage, but my overall mileage is similar and here is how it breaks down on my Volt:

Total miles - 9622.9
Elect miles - 9512.2 ==> 4.51 mi/kW-h or 22.154 kW-h/100mi
Gas miles - 110.7 ==> 31.62 mpg
Electric usage - 2107.3 kW-h (measured at the wall)
Gas usage - 3.5 gal

For the gas usage, the trips break down as follows:
1 trip over 25 miles gas (in addition to electric range)
9 trips 3 to 24 miles gas (in addition to electric range)
20 trips under 2 miles gas (13 of these were for cold weather operation)

My usage is primarily work commuting and is a mix of back roads and highway usage. This obviously results in good electric usage efficiency (38% under EPA estimate of 36 kW-h/100mi) and poor gas usage efficiency for the small amount used.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

3.5 gals over nearly 10k miles!

Congrats; however, it looks like a Leaf would work well for your driving needs. That's assuming they were available when you bought which I don't think they were.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

I agree, but unfortunately no local dealers have it even now. Our next car will be a BEV, but the Volt will be kept for longer trips.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

hmm.

The prius had 17,700 in the second year (first full year), MITI paid half of the extra cost directly to toyota. Sales went down the next year to 15,200 with this continued subsidy. Would have you pulled the plug? I'm glad Toyota didn't.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

That's really good.

Using the numbers from Voltstats.net and using the XPrize MPGe calculator backward, the average electricity consumption for Volt is 36.5 kWh/100mi.

The average shows 120 MPG (electric miles included) and 62.7 MPGe. Working backward, that comes out to 259 Wh/mi (gas miles included). If the gas miles are subtracted from it, pure electric miles come out to 365 Wh/mi.

	Column 1
0	CONVERT PHEV MPG AND WH/MI TO MPGe
1
2	Miles-Per-Gallon (gasoline) - MPG: 120.0
3	Watt-Hours (electricity) per mile: 259.0
4	MPGe: 62.7

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Who is MITI and what's the source of your claim that they paid half the cost of Prius to Toyota?

15.2k vs 17.7k year to year fluctuation isn't much to pull the plug. That's still twice the volume Volt is selling with $4 per gallon vs $1 back then.

 

Re: Motor Trend: Okay, so Volt is not an EV. It's a Hybrid. But we think it's a superior hybrid to H

Ministry of International Trade and Industry, its the Japanese government institution that runs these programs. If you don't know about MITI, you can not know much about the Japanese car industry. MITI provided these subsidies as well as the BPEV - battery propelled electric vehicle program - that funded R&D into batteries , motors, and controllers are public information, but this is long ago. I have posted links before. If you need another one I guess I can look it up again. The US government programs that have been set up for plug ins are attempting to copy some of the sucess of the MITI programs.

Currently prius gets a cash for clunkers subsidy and a hybrid subsidy in japan, these amount to about $3000/car but subsidies go for many efficient and low emissions vehicles.

I'm not sure that has much to do with it. The prius in japan was presented as reducing demand for foreign oil and low emissions. The price of gasoline in Japan was much higher than america because of taxes, and the yen was weaker. The expectation in Japan was for gas prices to increase which they did.

The question is if 7500 units is enough for you to pull the plug, what is your limit. This was a money losing investment for toyota. If the volt sells 15,000 this year is that enough for you to end this sillyness?