Map of which countries post dates in the right way or the wrong way

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by hkmb, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Yes. I think the problem was that the government didn't go the whole nine yards in its efforts at getting the population to accept the metric system.
     
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  2. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    America just HAS to be different though. The world has adopted the A4 standard paper size other than America who has their own.

    Why be consistently different? Is it you look down on the World as being sub standard? Why be the only one? It's not just paper sizes that this applies to.
     
  3. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    That was sort of the point. Unfortunately, really going to the metric system would require retooling an unbelievable amount of our industry. We are way beyond that costing billions of dollars. Who pays for that? Is it worth it?
     
  4. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Sure, there are costs, but what about the benefits?
     
  5. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    You mean like all the products you make that are already metric? I'm sure you've been making items for decades that are already metric.

    If it ISN'T metric, it's not gonna sell outside your own market! Or is that the idea?
     
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  6. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    You mean, besides things like not wasting a third of a $Billion on Mars Climate Orbiter doomed by a non-metric unit error?

    Case Studies: Metric/English Conversion Errors

    (PS posted before ftl's reply arrived here, but I'm leaving it for the linked article. I've seen other cases elsewhere, such as a failed space shuttle experiment.)
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    While conversion error was the direct cause of the Mars Climate Orbiter, the underlying cause was the subdivision and rush of the work. Which is why the error was missed. It used the operating software. The engineer responsible for the flight corrections portion to update to the software did his job right. Nobody told him when another team removed the conversion program from the original software.

    Of course, using just one set of units would have avoided all this.
     
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  9. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I'm talking about things like a passenger aircraft. It can have 50,000+ bolts, nuts, screws, etc all based on non metric parts. Replacement parts can only come from the aircraft manufacturer, so to the end user it is a non-factor whether the $1000 bolt is 3/8th head or 10 mm head. It's the $1000 that matters. However, to build the next generation aircraft totally metric could add $10,000,000 but not make it a better plane, just a "metric" plane. If that causes the aircraft company to lose the sale, then the metric conversion was not worth it.

    Please don't take my comment as opposing the metric system. I was pointing out (and so were you!) that tooling changes and end user desires have economic consequences that are often faced by manufacturers. The metric vs. non-metric transition is a whole lot more complicated than what most people realize.
     
  10. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Britain has (mostly) done it. Australia has too.

    When I was a kid in Britain, everything was in Imperial. You'd buy meat by the pound and drinks by the pint and petrol by the gallon, and the weather forecast would be in Fahrenheit. Now, in Britain, you buy meat by the kilo and petrol by the litre and the weather in in Centigrade. You by canned drinks by the litre, but beer at the pub still comes in a pint glass. And speed limits and odometers are in miles. Although you buy petrol by the litre, the specs of your car tell you what it'll do in miles per gallon. In Australia, we've gone completely metric.

    It was a gradual process. From when I was about 5 to when I was about 20, the weather forecast was in both Fahrenheit and Centigrade, and from when I was about 15 to 25, petrol prices were displayed per litre and per gallon.

    So it can be done.
     
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  11. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    China is mainly metric, but people still buy meat and vegetables by the jin (about 500 grammes). And there's a Chinese inch, which is a bit more than a US/UK inch. And land is measured in mu (there are just under 15 mu to a hectare). So it's not just America that's idiosyncratic.

    And then there's Britain, with its weird legal paper. A couple of my parents' friends have just got divorced. They're both Australian, but she's now in Australia and he's in Britain so it had to be formalised in both countries. Because the papers were formatted in Legal by the British lawyers, the version submitted to the Australian courts, when printed out in A4, was all buggered up, with wrong page number references and stuff. So the Australian courts wouldn't accept it.

    Maybe.

    It could be argued that Japan's electronics industry thrived because its electricity supply and FM frequencies were different to everyone else's. In the old days, it wasn't worthwhile for foreign companies to bother making 100V/60Hz products, or radios covering 76-90MHz, just for the Japanese market. But it was worthwhile for Japanese companies to make products to international standards for export.
     
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  12. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Hasn't Boeing gone metric already? I thought this - a ground engineer not knowing they'd gone metric for the 767 and giving the plane 22,300lbs of fuel instead of 22,300kgs - was what led to the Gimli Glider incident.

    Gimli Glider - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

     
  13. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Yes and no. It varies dramatically depending on the plane tooling, and a huge number of other factors. The body of the plane can be non-metric and the engines can be completely metric. Same with a number of the avionics and software. Some of the program can have variables in English units and a different section of the same program can have variables in Metric Units.

    I design all kinds of avionics. It is very rare for a project to have 100% of everything in one set of units. For example, an European or Asian altimeter can be made of metric parts and programmed in metric units only to output altitude in 100s of feet.
     
  14. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Gosh, that all sounds remarkably complicated.

    It worries me that the engines could fall off. If you've got Rolls-Royce engines going at 500km/h on a Boeing plane doing 500mph, the plane will get to its destination several hours before the engines. This is a nightmare - a nightmare, I tell you - for air traffic control. IT'S AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN.

    With what you say about the altimeters, I suppose that's an argument for the US retaining its peculiar system. In an increasingly software-based work, everything can work in a uniform currency, but inputs and displays can be in whatever format the user wants.

    I remember in the 80s people saying that character-based languages couldn't last, because computers would all use Roman letters. As software advanced, it became less of a problem - you can do your programming in Roman letters, but all displays and user inputs can be in Chinese.
     
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  15. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    I forgot - Australia also has its own measurement system. It was post on another thread about a hailstorm that reminded me.

    • Hailstones (and growths on your body) are measured in balls, ranging from golf-ball to tennis-ball.
    • Large volumes of water are measured in Olympic-sized swimming pools.
    • Very large volumes of water are measured in Sydney Harbours.
    • The sizes of whales and dinosaurs are measured in family cars or buses.
    • Land areas for farms in Western Australia, South Australia, and the Northern Territory, and sometimes for flooded areas in Queensland, are measured in Belgiums.

    I can't find any conversion software.
     
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  16. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    What you see as a problem, I see as a market opportunity.

    I'll let you on a little secret. Real engineers use serious units, one of the favorites being furlongs per fortnight. Look it up on google, It will show up before you finish typing.
     
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    If it doesn't use the smoot, I don't like it.
     
  18. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    I checked the calibration on a recent visit to MIT and it's right on.
     
  19. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Are you referring to the English smoot, American smoot, or Australian smoot?
     
  20. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I'm confused. Did you check the bridge length with the present smoot or check the present smoot to the bridge length? Engineers are concerned about minor details like that.