Mac vs Windows

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JustLurkin @ Sep 25 2007, 03:08 PM) [snapback]517356[/snapback]</div>

Yes, we all remember that one
If they become really serious about running MS Windows on their machines, their unique identity as a computer manufacturer will erode further. They already sell hardware with PC roots (stuff like CPU's and graphics cards)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JustLurkin @ Sep 25 2007, 03:08 PM) [snapback]517356[/snapback]</div>

That is an acceptable situation for consumers indeed, but not for business applications. If they want to promote Mac's as "better PC's" for business usage, they will need to go much deeper with their commitment. But I can imagine that this is not in their interest right now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JustLurkin @ Sep 25 2007, 03:08 PM) [snapback]517356[/snapback]</div>

Never underestimate the ego of Steve Jobs!

 

I can fully understand Apple not wanting to sell Windows, even as pc-on-a-mac gets easier. Software developers have said for years it wasn't worth the trouble to have both pc and mac versions, because of the low market share and the different architecture. Both of these reasons seem less convincing now. Is it becoming more compelling to create 'windows' software that runs natively in OSX?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 25 2007, 05:20 PM) [snapback]517398[/snapback]</div>

I am afraid that I don't understand what you are saying. The fact that some niche developers have chosen not to develop their product for Mac sounds like an important argument to me for Apple to offer Windows as a choice on their hardware.
And I don't know what you mean by 'windows" software that runs natively on OSX. That wouldn't be Windows software anymore, but just OSX software.
Maybe I read your post incorrectly?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(smithBYU @ Sep 22 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]516105[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the advice - maybe I'll try that route instead of a re-install - which would be a real pain. The other thing I'm going to try is a defrag. Hopefully that'll help too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ 2007 09 26 00:38) [snapback]517788[/snapback]</div>

Sorry. Maybe I'm missing something about how software is written - I'm just a user. I work mostly with accounting software that is not available for the mac, and sometimes generates 'unexpected results' even in Windows running on macs.

I was thinking now that both Apples and PCs use Intel chips, for the most part, the software might be more similar than it used to be. And, now that Apple's share of the market is significantly bigger, it's more difficult to dismiss as 'too small'.

I'm also thinking, given the history, that business users will give up their PCs and Apple will fully support Microsoft sometime after hell freezes over. I could be wrong, but that sounds like 'giving up', when Apple could aim instead to be the dominant operating system.

So, I'll try the question again: Is the incentive to develop for the mac increasing?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 26 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]517892[/snapback]</div>

Not really. If you want to cross-develop for MS Windows and OSX, the biggest difference still remains: the different GUI's and API's (application programming interface) of both operating systems.
In fact, the trend of browser-hosted applications is much more important here, because this allows for an almost uniform development environment for a large variety of OS. But you can't do everything in a browser, and there is still an important place for native applications.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 26 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]517892[/snapback]</div>

That depends to a large extent about what software we are talking about. If it is a mainstream consumer or business piece of software (say, a photo editor or something), then there always has been a good reason to develop for mac, and to include this from scratch. If you develop a high-end professional niche application, there is little reason to do this, and there is still is in my personal view. The point is that, for such applications, people purchase whatever hardware that is necessary to run that application. The software is much more important than the hardware in that case. So, as a developer, you chose a single platform and don't waste time supporting other platforms. In most cases, the most prominent platform in that specific market is chosen, and this often ends up being MS Windows these days. We have done this for many years and I am confident that we never lost a single sale because we do not support macs. The fact that OSX is on the rise changes little to that. Ironically, because mac's now have good support for running MS Windows, there is even less reason than ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 26 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]517892[/snapback]</div>

Well, in the eyes of many, Apple has already 'given up' when they switched to Intel. For many years, they openly ridiculed Intel CPU's, saying that their Motorola's or PowerPC's are so much faster and better. And then they made the switch, and now they are singing the virtues of Intel CPU's. That showed that they are flexible enough to adapt to a reality if it makes commercial sense. In my view, Apple is becoming more and more a company of fancy quality consumer goods anyway, and less and less a computer manufacturer (they dropped the term 'computers' in their brand name).

And I don't think that OSX will become the dominant OS for business applications anytime soon. Apple does not deal sufficiently with the boring and ugly underbelly of IT, where continuity, standardisation and legacy support is much more important than cool design and windows with drop shadows. I think it's future is much brighter for premium consumer computers. My next surf box at home will be a mac.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Sep 27 2007, 02:04 AM) [snapback]518372[/snapback]</div>

I think you are completely on point with your assessment. Steve Jobs has essentially re-made Apple into a consumer electronics powerhouse. If you doubt it, look at where the development funds are going - iPod, iTunes, iPhone. Computers are simply the enablement of the consumer electronics franchise.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ 2007 09 27 02:04) [snapback]518372[/snapback]</div>

Thank you, vtie, for your thorough assessment. I'm quite happy with my 'surf box' iMac, but I suppose the pc beside it isn't going away. The search for beauty, brains, AND compatibility remains ever elusive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 27 2007, 06:53 PM) [snapback]518526[/snapback]</div>

Just pick the most appropriate tool for the each job. What really damages a consumer is blind brand loyalty.
If someone would have said 5 years ago that I would purchase a Toyota, I would have laughed that away because I did not like Japanese cars. And yet, I completely changed my mind in 10 minutes when a friend drove me in his Prius... And now I enjoy that car almost every day for city driving.
I see today's Macs and I like them as easy, reliable, stylish all-round home computers that come at a sharp price with close to zero maintenance. The term 'surf box' really wasn't meant in a pejorative sense.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Sep 27 2007, 04:04 AM) [snapback]518372[/snapback]</div>

Don't forget that the Pentium IV architecture was complete DOG. The PPC was faster at the time - and a lot more energy efficient.

But Motorola lost its way, and IBM decided that the Playstation was a better market (Wii anyone? ). So the PPC lineup essentially died with the G5.

Meanwhile Intel had learned their lesson. They designed the Core architechure and they have been kicking butt since. (Bye bye, AMD...)

What makes me shake my head though, is for how long after the Core was released that Dell and gang still sold machnines with PIVs...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(n8kwx @ Sep 27 2007, 11:40 PM) [snapback]518692[/snapback]</div>

I agree with that. But there have been several moments in the past that Intel was ahead of e.g. Motorola, especially at a given price point. That's how it goes in business (look at the gigantic struggle between ATI and nVidia for GPU's!). It's dangerous to mock too much about your competition - one day you may have to eat your own words.
It's interesting to notice that Apple has been forced to adopt the majority of the business choices that have been made in the PC world long ago already. This not only concerns the CPU choice, but also the whole open/closed hardware model. These days, the good Macs come with nVidia or ATI graphics, have USB ports, etc... Long live hardware standardisation!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(n8kwx @ Sep 27 2007, 11:40 PM) [snapback]518692[/snapback]</div>

My guess is that at that time IBM considered Apple a too small market to really do a lot of efforts for. And then they made that Cell thing...
I like they way the Wii has disrupted the PlayStation dream. An excellent example that you should never take something for granted in business.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(n8kwx @ Sep 27 2007, 11:40 PM) [snapback]518692[/snapback]</div>

Well, Dell is just Dell...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(barbaram @ Sep 27 2007, 09:14 PM) [snapback]518801[/snapback]</div>

Congrats!

Good luck and hope you will get many years of good use out of your Macbook. I traded in a trusty Thinkpad T41 for my Intel-powered Macbook Pro, and haven't looked back since.

 

Couldn't resist... :lol: :lol:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/28/bofh_episode_33/

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar @ Oct 2 2007, 12:46 PM) [snapback]520406[/snapback]</div>

If you want some REAL British IT "humour" ( ) do a search for the "IT Crowd". It is a TV series that came out last year over there. It was really funny.

And perhaps some day the hollywood execs will come to the conclusion that a few clips on YouTube were GREAT free marketing...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(barbaram @ Oct 7 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]522526[/snapback]</div>

I use NeoOffice. I like it. Not as much as OpenOffice, which is on my Linux Laptop. But the differences seem to be small things, like fewer keyboard shortcuts.

With the caveat that I have no business needs, I'm just a home user, NeoOffice is great. And it opens anything from MS Office (Word documents, Excel spreadsheets, database, powerpoint, etc.) I could never open Powerpoint files on my PC because I used WordPerfect. Now I can open them on the iMac because of NeoOffice.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(barbaram @ Oct 7 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]522526[/snapback]</div>

No - not neooffice but I have used Open Office on my PC and my wife's. It is great, but as a long, longtime Excel user I find that the differences in Open Office are enough to make spreadsheet building quite frustrating. Again, not that the product is not good, but I suppose it is what you are used to.

This is similar to why I would not switch to a Mac. 98% of the time I am happy with WinXP Pro. The mac might be an elegant and fine machine, but I have years of knowledge using the Windows & XP environment and it is much more trouble to switch than the OS ever causes me. This is also why I am dreading Vista, though I suspect that is a much easier migration for a Windows user than is a migration to OS-X.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Sep 25 2007, 12:59 AM) [snapback]517317[/snapback]</div>

Now that public companies have to disclose their warranty costs, we know that Apple has about half the warranty claims of the PC manufacturer's, and their current warranty reserve is right at 1% of sales. See http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20070508.html.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Oct 8 2007, 11:41 PM) [snapback]523016[/snapback]</div>

I found the switch from Windows XP to Mac OS X to be pretty easy. The X - + buttons are at the upper left of each window, rather than the upper right, and the drop-down options are at the top of the screen, rather than the top of each window. Those are the major user-interface differences. And then, there's no registry. The registry alone would have been enough of a reason for me to eventually dump Windows.

I suppose OpenOffice and its twin, NeoOffice, would take some getting used to if you're really used to and comfortable with MS Office. But they're mostly pretty intuitive, and there's a help program, as with anything nowadays. I'm not a big spreadsheet user, but I've built a few for tracking my personal finances, and I am very happy with OpenOffice and NeoOffice. (The former on my Linux machine, and the latter on my iMac.)

And of course NeoOffice and OpenOffice are free! And if you are a programmer you can get the source code and modify it to suit yourself. Maybe you don't want to do that. But the fact that any developer can get the source code is a big advantage. No secret codecs or file formats. I would recommend OpenOffice even to a Windows user. (NeoOffice is specifically for the Mac.)