Looking to the future: what hybrid should toyota build next?

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by xraydoug, Oct 1, 2013.

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  1. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    RAV4, Venza Hybrids? Possible next Gen Odyssey Hybrid Minivan!
    [​IMG]The minivan with the economy of a Prius
     
    #41 Sergiospl, Feb 11, 2014
  2. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Toyota already builds a V8 Hybrid, its called a Lexus LS600h.
     
    #42 orenji, Feb 12, 2014
  3. michelb

    michelb New Member

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    I have to agree with those suggested a Sienna Hybrid. I just don't understand why Toyota hasn't been it built yet (especially considering I think they've had the Estima for something like 15 years in Japan).

    I've read reports saying that Toyota said that "a hybrid minivan wouldn't make any sense for the type of driving they are used for" and that just doesn't make any sense for me. Our Sienna is probably used 70% in the city and I'd love to get even 5mpg more - if you can get me 30mpg city in a Sienna, I'd be thrilled.

    If they can build the Highlander Hybrid, there's no reason they can't build a Sienna Hydrid (and if I had a choice, give it a 4 cyl instead of the HiHy's V6). There might be bit more restrictions on the HV battery placement because of the Siennas retractable seats but I'm sure they can come up with something (no spare and run-flats, bump the entire floor 2 inches up and have a super flat battery, etc).
     
    #43 michelb, Feb 14, 2014
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  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Well think about it for a moment.

    The current crop of minivans are fairly large and fairly heavy (most tipping the scales near 2,000kg). A 4 cylinder HSD won't work (e.g. 2.5L HSD out of the Camry) and a V6 won't give enough of a FE boost (e.g. HiHy and RX) that people want out of a hybrid minivan. Dropping the city mileage from 11L/100km to 9L/100km seems like a lot but are people willing to pay the extra cost for it and give up some utility? (e.g. folding 3rd seat or AWD). When Dodge is "giving away" minivans in Canada in the low $20k (the Japanese 3 start near $27-29k for base models), there really isn't an incentive since most are looking simply for the space of a minivan and the practicality of one. Yes there are some looking for more features (power sliding doors, leather seats, RSES and fancy audio systems) but I would wager a reasonable sized chunk are looking for a basic vehicle. That's my guess. Maybe someone will have the actual numbers lol.
     
    #44 Tideland Prius, Feb 15, 2014
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    A diesel would probably work better for an American minivan.
     
    #45 Trollbait, Feb 15, 2014
  6. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    #46 Sergiospl, Feb 25, 2014
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  7. PriQ

    PriQ CT+iQ

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    I think making one of the really small cars like the Aygo or iQ hybrid would be a nice move - they are already city cars, and city driving + hybrid is the best combination after pure electric.
     
    #47 PriQ, Mar 10, 2014
  8. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    the c is pretty small
     
    #48 markabele, Mar 10, 2014
  9. PriQ

    PriQ CT+iQ

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    The Aygo and iQ are smaller. Let's see what current technology can push once you get the additional weight advantage.
     
    #49 PriQ, Mar 10, 2014
  10. NR427

    NR427 Member

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    I think the Rav4 would make a perfect hybrid. Small enough to use the Camry guts and make sure you can get a base model not just high end like the Highlander.
     
    #50 NR427, Mar 10, 2014
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Perhaps once Toyota goes lithium. Otherwise it will be a challenge getting the battery pack into them without sacrificing too much space. The electric iQ ended up with just 50 miles of range on the EPA test cycles. The main hinderance for these to go full hybrid will whether Toyota thinks it can sell enough of them. Japan then North America are the biggest hybrid markets. The iQ is a niche Scion in the US, and the Aygo isn't even offered.

    The Rav4 makes sense. The Escape isn't around for competition anymore, and people would welcome more AWD hybrid choices. Against it is, well, the fact the Escape isn't around anymore. Ford dumped the hybrid version out of concern the few sales it had would just go to the C-max, and keeping it around just for the AWD crowd was going to be a money loser. In terms of cargo capacity, a RAV4 hybrid will be competing mostly with the Prius v.
     
    #51 Trollbait, Mar 11, 2014
  12. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Does the c have a smaller pack than the regular Gen3? I honestly don't know.
     
    #52 markabele, Mar 11, 2014
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yes. It has a 19.3kW pack v. the Prius 27kW.
     
    #53 Trollbait, Mar 11, 2014
  14. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Did you mean that number for one of the MG's? A battery should be in kWh's.
     
    #54 markabele, Mar 11, 2014
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    kW is also used to rate battery power, and is what traction packs for hybrids fuel cell cars are usually reported in. kWh is how long the charge lasts, and kW is how much power the battery can put out at once.

    I got the numbers off Toyota's website. They were under traction battery on the specifications page.
     
    #55 Trollbait, Mar 11, 2014
  16. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Gotcha. I guess I'm looking for overall battery size/capacity. In other words...how many kWh's?
     
    #56 markabele, Mar 11, 2014
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I was initially looking for a cell or module number. While I could get that for the Prius off Wikipedia, it proved not so simple for the c.

    So I just went to Toyota's site with the expectation of not finding anything. I found the kW/horsepower number there, and a total voltage also. From that, it should be possible to calculate the number of cells, since both cars are using the same type.

    I don't think I have ever seen a kWh for a HEV or FCEV battery pack published. They aren't using their batteries in the same way as a BEV. With a hybrid, the amount of power the battery can provide to assist the ICE has a bigger role on vehicle efficiency than how far it can provide EV for.

    Just found kWh numbers for them. The c is 0.9, and the Prius is 1.3 (though 1.4 according to Wikipedia.
    2012 Toyota Prius c Review: Pleasure Not Included | Rumble Seat by Dan Neil - WSJ.com

    There is simply less space for the pack in the c. Which is why I doubt we'll see a smaller Toyota with the full hybrid drive train without lithium batteries. An assist hybrid might be possible, but still unlikely.
     
    #57 Trollbait, Mar 11, 2014
  18. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Definitely agree. A .7 or .8 kWh lithium pack would be pretty small.
     
    #58 markabele, Mar 11, 2014
  19. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    And swappable.
    A prius c plugin - can it be done?
    Or is the market too soft.
     
    #59 vvillovv, Jul 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  20. NR427

    NR427 Member

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    Lexus is coming out with the NX soon why not a rav4!
     
    #60 NR427, Jul 7, 2014
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