Liberal

so what is your opinion on the original topic?

 

Facts can be elusive will-o-wisps. Let's see if the the deficit is $430bn, or headed that way. The Deficit is Still Shrinking. Click on the current deficit projetion, Federal Receipts & Outlays, Trended graph.

Negative savings rate, says the Economist. Maybe false assumptions were used to come up with that gem. Maybe Americans are Thrifty Savers. Per the linked article, our $38 trillion in financial assets is $3.3 trillion higher than a year ago, and our $51 trillion in net worth is $5 trillion higher. Guess what: That’s not a negative rate.

 

2 of the past 6 months is hardly a significant trend.

 

I guess it comes down to what you think the government's job is.

Government should run the things that are too big or complex or unprofitable to be done by individuals or businesses. The things necessary to the fitness of our local, state, national, or international, civilizations.

Collecting taxes, providing for security (military, police), overseeing business practices and health care, providing quality education that ensures a flow of workers with needed skills, ensuring the flow of commerce and communications, planning for future economic growth and of living and farming spaces, etc., should be the business of government.

Taking care of the poor has got to be a part of good government. Also addressing racial injustices and protecting the rights of all minorities. Call it being fair or enlightened self-interest or whatever. Don't know about you but I don't care for any repeats of the riots of the 60s. Besides, minority folks have lots to offer to society and it would be foolish to squander that.

I expect my elected officials and the bureaucrats to spend my taxes in a "transparent" manner, with an eye to the future. It's not acceptable for them to present messy budgets with hidden costs or faulty budgets that do not take all facotors into account.

The measly tax rebates you seem so fond of were actually indications of shoddy accounting and vote buying, disguised as gifts. What's so laughable about it is they handed us a pittance of all the money we've given to Uncle Sam over the years and expected us to be happy to get it.

Boy, they're slick, aren't they?

The administration should keep our taxes, balance the budget, move on to other, more pressing, issues. Like health care and what it would take to make our population more healthy. Instead, the medical profession is hooked on presenting technological quick-fix bandaids. Or how about poverty or education or the environment or energy or ...

 

MS, I've been watching spending and savings trends for over a decade. Flouting individual savings has become part of our national culture. We're addicted to using credit, scratching present purchase itches with the promise of future payments.

We were showing signs of saving by not over-spending our incomes over the last six months but then we slipped, big time, back into incurring debt (for two months).

It's scary. This overlaying of debt, throughout society, could implode and swallow us.

Say the credit card companies and banks decide to increase the minimum monthly payments. There are too many of us who can barely make their monthly minimum payments at the current rates and this would finish them. With the new bankruptcy laws, it's harder for them to declare personal bankruptcy. They could lose their small homes, second-hand cars and transportation to their minimum-wage jobs, everything. The lower income end of society would then collapse to create a larger pool of the poor and the whole economic scale would compress, bringing you and I down a rung or two.

Sorry to sound alarmist but think about it. The first step, making the declaration of personal bankruptcy more difficult, has already happened.

 

You continue to try and explain away the political shift in this country through a crazy theory about George Bush and what is a liberal. What is really hapening in this country is the 'liberal' has moved way to far to the left of the average voter in this country. Politically speaking today's liberal would have been perceived as a radical, and maybe a far radical only 30-40 years ago. The democratic party will continue to lose political power in this country until it sheds it far left wing and finds a way to connect with the average voter.
Was George Bush a wildly poular president who won re-election in 2004? No he was perceived by many folks as the lesser of two evils. If Kerry could not defeat Bush in 2004, will a liberal from the northeast ever win the white house in the next 30-40 years? In my opinion, not a chance.
Stop crying about George Bush and how he is framing the political landscape in the US. Find a solid candidate for 2008 who can connect with the average american in the west and the south.

I remember my first political awareness in about 1980, my history teacher described the political landscape in almost permanent terms as belonging to the democratic party, the president, the congress and the courts. Is the country that much more conservative today or has the democratic party turned into the party of special interests and fringe groups? Being a liberal was not always the kiss of death politically, have you ever wondered why that happened?

 

You're right. Nobody should have to charge themselves into a minimum credit card payment just to survive. Something is wrong with this picture. And they patted greenspan on the back for raising rates again last month. I was a business major, and all he did the last few times was make it more costly to the average person to borrow money.

 

Yes, They're all slick enough to get the voters to re-elect them every 4 or 6 yrs. They get great money and perks we can't imagine. And they do no work. They just talk, talk some more, pass some laws, talk some more, etc. Oh, let's not forget their long "Recesses."

Can you imagine if we got all that time off from our jobs each year. I hate it when all the "Vote for me" types come out & wave to us. I have no idea who most of them are locally. Then they leave all their signs & garbage around to be picked up by us after the elections.

 

Hey, Denny A, I like your avatar! Of course, you know the joke about 'why only 4 engines on the 146' right?

 

Florida sucks. The only thing it has going for it is warm weather. It's okay if you move there after you've retired and have enough money to support your lifestyle but if you're of working age, Florida is a black hole.

Florida consumed my friend, Tricia. She went from having her own accounting business in New York and New Jersey to making deals with con-artist boyfriends. She refuses to move out of the state or into a large Floridian city so she can't drum up enough business to pay current expenses, much less start saving toward retirement. Every time I talk to her, she's toying with a new get-rich-quick scheme.

Then there's one of Dan's ex-coworkers, Marie. She was forced into early retirement, took her pension money and purchased a condo down the street from us. She and her husband, who still works, have become good friends of ours. Marie sold company stock and wanted to invest the money. She decided to buy "warm weather" real estate, a dream she's had for many years. Marie and Frank flew down to the Ft. Myers area, and signed a deal for a to-be-built house. This was last month. She's selling the condo to make up for the down-payment but still needs a mortage to cover the rest of the purchase price. Dan and I figure it's gotta be in the $700k range.
Dan and I asked about how far inland, what the elevation is on the house, if the roof was tile, how much utilities were, etc. Marie said the house would be fine until Frank could retire, they would just close it up and leave it when returning north. When Dan told her to leave the ac on all summer, just to keep the humidity knocked down below mold level, Marie expressed surprise.
The other day, Marie got wind that the housing bubble in Florida was collapsing. She sent an email saying she plans to hold onto the house for the next ten years and hope the values improve on it.
Marie is making payments on a house that doesn't exist yet, in a hurricane- and flood-prone area of the country, whose value is decreasing by the day! But she's in pursuit of that dream...

 

I agree. The credit faucet is very easy to open. I just don't think 6 months is a great indicator of an overall trend, but if you've been observing trends for over a decade, and it's in-line with observations made within the Economist, then I have faith in your observation.

They alread have. Within the last few months, I received notices from my various card companies stating minimum payment calculations have changed, i.e. increased. Which, in many ways, is a good thing, as it brings balances down quicker. I guess, in the end, it was done for the greater good, even though those who can only afford minimum payments will "fold". Not sure what that percentage it is overall, but it's certainly not going to be pleasant.

While I agree, I think part of the problem, and I'm not sure what proportion of blame I can assign to it, are "pooled risk" calculations and data used by credit card, or other risk-based companies. I think the general "feeling" is something amongst the lines "hey, who cares, we'll simply sell off our debt to someone else anyway...", more or less. I think, as with most things, not 1 entity is fully to blame, but rather everyone shares a little: credit card companies for being able to provide excessive credit, people with bad spending habits, and anyone one of either a thousand other reasons.

Let's just be thankful the concept of "debtor's prison" was done away with... :lol:

 

I don't want to debate you. I am just stating my opinion which is pretty well backed up by the national election results of the last 37 years. If someone wants to have a little civil dialogue I am open to it.

 

Really? The credit card companies already raised the minimum monthly payment percentages? Oh #$@^!!

I missed that. Never paid attention to the fine print on the credit card bill (we only use one), just pay it off every month.

Damnation! That was one of the economic signs Dan wanted to keep an eye on. I'll be dropping an email to our lawyer later today, ask him if he's noticed any increase in the number of questions about personal bankrupcy.

Guess what Dan and I will be discussing over dinner* tonight.

This is not good, Squidey. Not good at all.




* Homemade chicken soup with hot out of the oven biscuits made from scratch, salads, glasses of local white Zinfendel. Dessert: Valentine's Day chocolate covered cherries. Then lots of hot tea and a cut-throat game of Scrabble or the movie, Das Boot.

 

FWIW, not sure how useful this will be (but it's always good to have more info. than less), but some credit card companies realize they're at risk (particularly the "higher risk" cards), play *cute* games whereas they will lower your interest rate such that your minimum payment stays the same (but the spread stays the same, generally)... lol

heh, just noticed the dinner part... thanks a lot hungry at 3:30pm doesn't do me too much good. :angry:

j/k!

 

You gotta get yourself a roomie who likes to cook.

Dan takes lunch to work every day, usually left-over dinner from the night before. I toss a yogurt and a muffin or cookie or cut-up veges in the bag. Dan snacks on those in the afternoon before heading to the gym at work.

 

Hmmm...let me guess. BAe stands for ..... ummm... Bring Another engine?

 

Ooh, I hadn't heard that one. They only have four engines because THEY COULDN'T FIT SIX!

 

Actually the original design had twin engines. But no mfr had a correctly sized engine so they redesigned for 3. But the tail would have had to be beefed up and the aerodynamics reworked. So they went to 6 engines. But, the wings were too short, again requiring more beefing and redesign. Finally they settled on 5 engines. Four on the wings and one in the tail. (APU- see thumbnail).

Just kidding about 3 & 6 engines of course. :blink:

 

Is this like the razor wars? Between Gilette and the other big manufacturer.

They went from one blade to two. Then from two to three. I thought that would be it but no, one of them made a razor with four blades. Now a FIVE blade razor has been introduced. It vibrates and seems rather much.

Anyone on PC try the five blade razor yet?