Leno still on his original tank of gas.

Why all the hate of the volt? He may have gone over the leaf range, or the leaf could have caused anxiety. But the bigger reason is he may simply prefer the volt. Maybe its because he thinks the leaf is ugly.

It always astonishes me the hate people have for phevs. Its the worst of both worlds they say, but really these are likely the class of electrified vehicles that makes the most sense.

car and driver thought the boxter spider handled better than any lotus or other porsche. The boxter is probably 1000lbs heavier than the Elise but the porsche engineers made it handle better. Weight is important but not everything. I am sure the roadster handles better than the volt, but I would not want to park it many places I go. The roadster gives you electric drive which has got to feel better accelerating than the lotus. Porsche is rumored to be electrifying the boxter (will it still be a boxter without a boxter engine) and we will see if it handles even better. Choices are good. Leno has chosen the volt.

 

I don't hate the Volt. I don't particularly like the styling; the grille for example makes me think of an old Civic Hybrid, where Honda took a conventional car and blocked off most of the opening. The styling could have been so much better, and it costs just as much to make a bland bodyshell as an interesting one.

As far as the Roadster, I was comparing it to the ICE Lotus, not the Volt. The handling of a Porsche or other cars is irrelevant to this discussion.

As far as Leno's Volt and his specific experience, sounds like a negative to me, dragging around all that expensive and weighty hardware that's clearly not needed for daily operation of the car. I mean, if he could have simply removed the ICE and associated parts, EV range would have increased and it likely wouldn't have needed to burn any gas at all.

His claim boils down to: "I'm driving around with all this extra stuff I don't need!" So, get a Leaf already.

 

lol. smart cars and leafs certainly look interesting. To each there own. I don't think the volt is pretty like the roadster, but its not a bad looking car.

Since it is a volt thread, I thought it might come into play. You can make things handle better for more dockets. If your point was the lotus handles great because it is so light, well the Porsche definitely is in the picture since it weighs even more than the Tesla.

I think you have been listening to USB and others a little too long. Do you think its worthless to have health insurance? Do you look down on people that have first aid kits? Are spare tires expensive and weighty hardare that you may never use? The volt gets about 12% worse electrical economy in the city, and better electrical economy at high speed. Is that so bad, about epa combined 5% overall to take away the choice?

Some people like being prepared.

Wow, you really have drunk the kool-aide. He is saying he likes his car and rarely uses gas. You are chirping in with the anti-phev folks, well then lets take away the choice. I really don't think I need the cost and weight of all those extra airbags, only 2, but toyota made me buy them. If carb did not regulate it so hard, I bet the leaf would have a range extender. Most people would like that extra stuff just in case. At least that's what they say.

 

Being prepared is one thing. Carrying around a spare engine is something else. This isn't an aircraft, flying over unforgiving terrain at night on an IFR flight plan (where two engines are comforting).

Now I'm thinking that I should install a second engine in my Fit. That way, just in case the first one happens to fail, I won't be stranded!


As far as spare tires, that might not be a great example. If you consider how many cars are carrying around extra weight in the form of a spare tire, you might be astounded by how much gas is being wasted. I suspect that, if a better solution can be found, spare tires will be a thing of the past (and run flats, or a can of fix-a-flat+a compressor, don't count). But that's another discussion for another day.

No, not a Kool-Aid drinker, just my personal opinion on the car.

BTW, airbags aren't the same as an engine that's rarely if ever needed. They are two different systems which perform different functions, and so it's comparing apples to oranges. The fact is, Leno proved that he's driving around in too much car. Which, actually (given his tank engined and V-12 engined specials) seems very much in character.

It's like, Volt owners can't have it both ways. If they find they're using the engine a LOT, that proves how important it is. If they're finding they us it a LITTLE, than that demonstrates how unimportant it is. Right now, all the claims I'm seeing indicate how little the engine is used.

I wish GM had exercised its engineering and design muscle and created a world beating EV. That really would have been something. I suppose, in some ways, I'm just a bit disappointed that they didn't.

 

I prefer single engine planes, but my flight instructor was hot and pulled my power and wouldn't let me recover until about 2' above the beach I do like having multiple fuel tanks in the air, and I visually inspect the level in pre-flight.

But seriously the engine is there is you want to travel beyond battery power. Otherwise, you get a call decide to go somewhere to far, and tow truck. I ran a guy that ran out of gas to a station yesterday and he had a 11 gallon tank. Many people don't want to have only a 1.5 gallon tank which is about what the comparison vehicle is. Most days are alright, but.... That shouldn't be so hand to understand.

np, but your criticism seems to take the whole category. That's what makes it sound like you are towing the party line. But partially I'm giving you grief.

They are part of the junk you don't need. Why can't I buy a car without airbags or power windows? I have gotten a speeding ticket on my bicycle (california and judge dismissed it), but only have 23mm tires and a helmet between me and disaster.

Onstar that tracks them says on average 1/3 of the miles are on gasoline or about 9 gallons per 1000 miles. Whether that is good or bad depends on your point of view.

 

For many, the "what if" need for the ICE is a bit like the "what if" need for 4wd. In reality its maybe a few times a year, but it can drive purchase decisions for many people. People will pay a lot to have the "potential freedom" to do what they want. Feeling constrained, even if its rarely the case, is just uncomfortable. When one can buy whatever they want, it is their choice. While Jay has not used a lot of gas, 4.6 gallons, he has the freedom to go if/when he needs it without using another of his may cars. He discussed it, and why not a BEV at Jay Leno Drives his Chevy Volt 11,000 Miles on 4.6 Gallons of Gas | PluginCars.com.

Is he carrying around a lot of weight, yes, but that may also be part of what make the car feel more like a upscale car. I find the drive quality very different than say a Prius (Not enough time in a leaf to really decide). Of course Jay could afford a Tesla so could even have a lot of range in a BEV (albeit a heavier one).

Whether or not he could do greener in another, I think its great for PHEVs, that he is not just owning one, but really using it. And him using it more like a BEV, and still being on his tank of gas, provides positive press for the average american to see it could be viable.

 

Roadburner posted an opinion earlier in this thread that the reason Leno likes the Volt so much is that he likes Detroit. That is, he likes American car companies. If that's the case, it explains why he prefers the Volt over the Leaf. When I read about all those clutches and weird operational modes, I can't help thinking that the Volt is going to end up being not particularly reliable. The Prius has multiple modes, but the hardware never changes its configuration. Only the way the way the motor-generators are made to run as motors or generators, and the ICE is run or stopped, is altered by the computer. The system is mechanically simple. The Volt is mechanically very complex.

It's a choice I made: I wanted electric and Nissan had dumped my order into indefinite limbo. I'd have kept my Xebra rather than get an Elise because the whole point was that I wanted to drive electric. The fun factor of the Tesla is just a bonus. And the Tesla probably uses 1/4 of the energy of the Elise, zero imported energy, and here in WA, zero carbon emission.

Speaking for myself, I don't hate the Volt. I just think it's a poor design with an extremely narrow market niche and a price that says GM wanted it to fail so they could dump it while claiming they tried. For a few people, but very few, it's the right car.

The Porsche 911 Carrera (the only Porsche I've driven) handles better than the Tesla Roadster, and as you say, is heavier. I've never driven a Lotus. I don't know how weight affects handling. What I like about the Tesla are, in order of importance: It's electric, it handles great on the freeway (my Prius not so much), the acceleration is fun and allows easy merging and passing, and it's beautiful. (Looks are the least important thing to me. The Tesla is the first car I've ever bought that I thought looked nice. All my other cars looked ugly to me when I first bought them. Function has always been more important to me than looks. Eventually I got used to them and ended up liking their looks. Even the klunky little Xebra seemed cute to me after a while.)

 

The volt's engine, clutches and such are simpler than an ICE with automatic transmission (in terms of moving parts and interactions) and its not that much more complex than the Prius. The volt adds 3 simple clutches, and because it controls the revs can get the ICE up to speed before engaging/releasing clutches which significantly reduces the strain on them. Of course reliability can only really be measured over time, so we'll have to wait and see. But I don't buy the argument that its too complex to be reliable.

 

+1

The range anxiety is real for likely many. The 'what if' is a stronger worry with the range extender than 4wd. Going along with the analogy, people who have never driven off road or in the snow are insisting on getting 4wd. An EV would work for many, but the concept is new to them, and they need the comfort of the range extender. It is irrational, but we are talking about people here.

 

So true!

 

I just want to join-in on the for "a few people" comment DFW area has about 6.4 million people. Many people I know have under 20 miles commute eachway. So Leaf sounds more than adequate for the commute, Volt can work purely on eletric too.
But about once or twice a week most of my friends will go to some events across from Fort Worth to Plano/Carrollton for some events or activities and with no intention of staying overnight. (About ~45 miles each way.) This would mean if I own a Leaf then I can't make it back in a day if I can't find a level two charging station. There are several charging stations available but more than likely you are going to a function that has no charging station nearby (which would be true for at least 80% of the time at present.) Most people would just “wait” till BEVs are improved before even getting a vehicle that would get into the way of their life (like moving around a metropolitan area.) But for me I would like to drive on electric as much as possible so I would rather not wait till the environment improved.
Volt owners need BEVs to sell well to improve the accessibility of charging stations. But for DFW area, IMHO BEV can’t work as a only vehicle in the household yet.

 

How many of those people are in one-car households? I've said frequently that only a few people could make do with JUST an EV. What I keep saying is that MOST two-car households could do very well with one EV and one gas car. The gas car for those occasional long drives, and the EV for commuting.

I have friends who used to live in Dallas. They didn't own a car at all. They managed quite well with bicycles. On the very rare occasions when they needed a car (like when I went to visit them) they rented one.

 

Only 60% of Americian's drivers are multi-car households. (Though many of the single-family may not be able to afford new cars at all).

If one can afford a primary EV as a tesla and the secondary car is a prius, as you have Daniel, that is definitely a good combo.


If one is not that well off and/or if your second car is constrained (e.g. my wife's requires an awd/cuv for hauling stuff), then for many people (e.g. those with average number of long trips), a Volt + second ICE is still more efficient than a EV + CUV if they can take the volt for many/most long trips. If one already owns a Prius, adding an EV may be great as well, but if both existing cars are an ICE, then again a Volt may be a better choice than an EV. If the goal is reducing fuel usage, the real answer is for any family to run the number for their travel mix.

Leno of course can afford anything he wants. He drives a Volt for the same reason many of us do, because he likes it.

 

Most of my friends? Most of them are single so mostly one car household And your friend must be very fortunate to have everything they need within bicycle range. Most Texans are not as fortunate since their cities used to build upon the structure for commute from suburbs with minimal public transportations. (More so in the western side of DFW than east, only very recently begun plan to improve on that.)

 

A bicycle is very doable. I put about 3700 miles on mine using it almost exclusively for an entire year to travel back and forth to work (cold weather and all, or at least what I consider cold in Florida).. It is not realistic if you have a family, but at the time for me mine was living in SC. So to get back and forth to work, and run to Wal-Mart it was perfect. Only downside to the bike was it ate through tires (cause idiots throw glass all over the side of the road in Jacksonville), and you needed a never ending supply of chain wax. Not to mention if it rained had to repack/lubricate everything.

 

Bah...
20k miles, and I'm still on my original charge of battery!
Yes, I have not plugged in since delivery...

 

And Iran thanks you!

"According to the International Energy Agency, Iran possesses the third-largest oil reserves in the world and produces approximately 4 million barrels a day. Japan, China and European nations are the biggest importers of Tehran's crude oil"

U.S. efforts to cut off Iran's oil exports put Japan in tight spot - Tehran Times

 

Why all the hate for the Leaf?

 

um, I'd have to ask what makes you say that?


.

 

+1

Hybrids are more efficient than ice only, but they do charge the batteries 100% from gasoline. PHEV use a mix of gasoline and electricity, the volt mainly electricity. I would rather take power away from OPEC, and reduce use of the oil sands, than to prop them up. Its good for national security both economic and military.

Don't you at me I like the leaf and like choice. There is a certain cynical element that says don't buy A you need to buy B. But really I don't think you convert these volt sales to leaf sales, you decrease the market for plug in sales. Hill if you are actually a proponent for plug in driving, you should support people that do most of their driving electrically in a volt, c-max, etc. Religious only BEV may actually slow BEV sales. I would love it if there were 100K leaf sales and 40K volt sales in america next year. Most of the anti-volt arguments end up being anti EV. Oh and I do think the leaf is ugly, but there are lots of ugly cars on the road. I'd rather have ugly BEVs than ugly SUVs any day.

Auto transmissions are more complicated mechanically than the volt drive train, but over the years they have become extremely reliable. Three clutches engaged electronically also should be extremely reliable, but people make mistakes, and only time will tell. The volt drive train in hybrid mode is less refined than the prius, and I would like to give gm time to improve on that.