Leather Seats vs. Standard Fabric

ugh. i dont want to search the entire toyota world site for an article that was made over a year ago. i'll try however

 

All I know is that when I get my new Prius, it means I can make even more trips between McDonald's (for a nice big cow burger) and the shooting range per gallon... all in the comfort and style of leather seats.

 

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/environment/rec...gn/recycle.html

here i found one article where they talk about it
in a different article they stated the prius had it. i doubt they still have that article up

 

You know what? You have a right to like MacDonalds, the shooting range and your leather seats, but is it necessary to display a disgusting behavior of trying to rub people's noses in those preferences? There's nothing wrong with your choices because you have the right to make them. You also have the right to be insulting to others, however inadvertantly. But why?

 

The article you posted as well as another article from msnbc both show that floor mats and spare tire covers are being made with this material.

"It is used in the spare tire cover and floor mats in the new Raum."

That's all well and good and hopefully there will be more use of this kind of bio-plastic material in the future for both pro-ecological and counter-fossil fuel dependency reasons, but neither article says anything about currently using this new material as seat cloth.

Therefore, my assertion stands that leather, which is natural, renewable and biodegradable, is a far "greener" material than the petrochemical resins used to make polyester cloth seats. Toyota may have made a marketing decision to keep leather out as a factory option simply to appeal to a target veg*n audience, but that does not mean that the veg*n agenda and the green agenda are at all synonymous.

 

Leather rules. Nothing fits your nice person like stretched-out cowhide! (But it was $2500 or more for a dealer upgrade.)

And I'll be honest. $27K for a Prius is my upper limit for a "gas sipper". If I am into the $30K+ range, I'm looking at low-end BMWs or high-end Mustangs.

:tomato:

For me, the "sweet spot" for the Prius is package #6 at $27K.

 

I agree. For all that I've posted in favor of leather as the truly "greener" material, I highly doubt I'll get it, mostly for economic reasons.

 

Sometimes "green" gets confused with other belief systems.

As a pragmatic American (and thus understand that leather is the wrapper for the beef industry's product) I can see how it might be more efficient (green) to use leather than to cut down a tree or make something organically.

That said, there is a huge Death Industry in America. Think about it! Think about all the things we eat, buy and wear that would disappear if we didn't have death.

So if you want to oppose leather because it supports the killing of an animal I can understand your position. But if you tangle up your argument in "green" speak then I don't fully support your position.

 

If you're going to flame me by calling me
a murderer, I would appreciate it if you would
not use a public forum such as this.
I have not resorted to such name calling with
the other members and I'm very disappointed
that you have to do so to get your view across.

BTW, I'm confused by your statement of disgust,
because I do believe that what happened to the
Jews is comparable to what has happened, what
is happening, and what will happen to the
animals.
In Charles Patterson's book, Eternal
Treblinka, he talks about how the Jews were
compared to lower animals. This comparison
to lower animals made it easier for the Nazis
to commit the atrocities that they did.
And the Nazis did treat the Jews like the
animals. Patterson compares the design of
their death chambers to what is being
used to slaughter animals. The experimentation
on the Jews came from the tradition of experimenting
on animals.
I don't know if the human lampshade is an
urban legend. But if it's true, it would correlate
with the comparison of the Holocaust treatment
of the Jews to the treatment of animals.
I believe that compassion for animals does
enhance one's compassion for humans. I
believe that the abuses at Abu Ghraib would
never have happened were it not for the higher
ups and the soldiers who probably compared the
prisoners to mere animals.
Actually, I think the Iraq war was about greed, although
I do think oil did play a part.

Esther

 

My understanding is that this is a forum where all opinions and statements (as long as they stay within the guidelines of the forum) are welcome so to be upset that someone made this statement seems a little unfair to me. No one is trying t repress your opinion that they do not agree with, so don't try to repress others. Ultimately these are our opinions good... bad... ugly... but that’s what makes this forum great, the ability to talk and disagree with each other but still allow everyone to have an opinion.

 

I agree, to have opinions is what I have endorsed. But I will continue to assert that we need not be insulting as dbird was to eastercat. eastercat was clearly insulted as she implied. She did not say anything to insult anyone else as far as I can determine. I, also, did not say anything that criticized anyone's opinion. I did say something about rubbing people's nose in it and maybe I should not have. But that seems to be more than expressing opinion. Perhaps that was not the intent.

 

Esther, good for you! Well-said. You're an excellent debater. If I were to debate you, I would be sure I knew what I was talking about before I'd make such an attempt. I don't agree with everything you said. For instance, I'm one of those who does not pretend to be particularly "shocked" by Abu Ghraib. I don't at all agree with it; but I have to laugh at the picture of that American woman standing over a pile of naked terrorist thugs, no matter how it was "played out" in the media by individuals masquerading as journalists. Good job, Esther!

 

Eastercat....you've got to be kidding yourself if you think that your original post was anything less that an inflammatory shout out to everyone who doesn't subscribe to your view of the "proper" use of cowhide and the mass raising of animals for food. I don’t think the comment of you being a murder was warranted, but I simply can't support such a narrow view that you seem to have. It's as if all of the cows and Jews have personally asked that YOU spout out weird interpretations of history for them (yes, I’m being sarcastic, but I just can’t believe your original and subsequent positions on this topic).

I doubt that anyone would deny that what happened with the Nazis was anything less than a horrible time in history, but how can you use that as an example to compare with the use of leather in cars? Your point of view comes across as self righteous and just plain old crazy.

I believe in moderation of using natural resources and giving back whenever I can (to people, animals and the earth in general). But, I’d never give anyone else the impression that their choice of seating options or what the put in their mouths was in anyway less worthy of my personal choices.

I also agree that you have a right to your opinions and your right to express them, but perhaps leaving out references to the holocaust would better serve to get your point across to a more receptive audience. Seriously, I'd like to print out your post for my kids to read on how not to view the world.

"Leather is really disgusting. It has a
negative environmental impact and
there are plenty of other materials that
can be used without having to kill an
animal. IMNSHO, using animal skin is no different
than when the Nazis made lamp shades
out of Jews. "

 

So nobody sees the wrong in using the tragedy of the Holocost as a debating trick?
I was first offended by Esther's use of the death of millions to slyly equate leather users or those who want a choice (see the original post's question) with Nazis i.e. Hitler.
If that was not meant to freeze discussion why use such a thing?
Please see Godwin's Law for the documented use of Nazi references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

BlueBell,
I recommend whatever seating surface meets your needs. Natural leather or free range polyester.
DBird

 

Comparing the consumption of animal flesh and the use leather and other animal products to the Holocaust trivializes the mass slaughter of millions by the Nazi death machine.

 

I see it quite clearly. It speaks volumes of the true and disgusting militant nature of the veg*n agenda. It's all about the preservation of the animals which they worship at all costs, even the cost of human health and cost of negative environmental practices (non-green) to produce only non-animal-source materials.

To be veg*n is NOT to be green.

 

My goodness, Esther, every time I log into Prisuchat, you're like the Spartans at the Battle of Marathon: outnumbered, but acquitting yourself very well! IsrAmerPrius, I really don't think Esther is trivializing the Nazi horrors. I think Esther is actually trying to emphasize her passion for the fate of animals destined for slaughter. Based on the little I know of Hitler and his murderous minions, Jews and the infirmed and others were treated infinitely worse than animals on their way to the slaughterhouse. In any case, I have to admire Esther's passion and her ability to express it. I have never witnessed anyone who succesfully trivialized the Holocaust, and Esther is far too savy and compassionate to try.

 

bluebell,

I like leather BUT we chose the standard cloth seats because our Prius came with side air bags and the leather prevents the bags from popping out of the side of the back of the seat. we wanted maximum protection. the custom leather installation can not be installed without having to disable the air bags in the seat backs.

the cloth seat backs have break away seams.

 

I believe that I have read posts of people who have had leather installed with breakaway sticking over the air bags. I'm might be thinking of seat covers, but I'm pretty sure you can do this with leather too.

 

Emilyjohn,

The animal rights advocates' equating of the Holocaust with the killing of farm animals is a manifestation of their non belief in the moral superiority of mankind.

Using your logic that animal slaughter is comparable to the mass murder of twelve million Jews and non Jews by the Nazi death machine can only lead to the conclusion that for you a cockroach exterminator is just an updated version of Adolf Eichmann.