Lawsuit against Toyota 60MPG

What a bunch of friggin' morons.

:x

 

Toyota, if you're watching this site, please be aware that I have consistently achieved or exceeded your published EPA ratings since taking delivery late May. After driving nearly 3000 pleasurable miles, my Prius has achieved an overall MPG of 56.7 combined city/highway. I will be happy to testify in court!

 

Well, perhaps they aren't *morons*. Perhaps their gas is always like my current tank, which struggles to stay above 40MPG but often fails.

I've had lots of 47MPG+ tanks, so I know that if things don't improve with the next tank I'll need to have the car looked at, but someone who's always seen my current lame numbers might think a lawsuit is justified...

 

How the EPA tests are conducted

Any discussion like this always gets me a little riled. To me the primary issue is the lack of understanding of how the EPA tests are conducted. As someone said earlier, it's not Toyota's test numbers that are reported, it's the EPA's. If more people understood how the tests are conducted they would be better understand how their own driving patterns are completely responsible for the mileage they are getting. Here is the EPA's test procedure according to a recent Prius newsletter.

"The EPA tests are conducted in a laboratory that simulates conditions to allow repeatable test results. The city miles-per-gallon (mpg) test simulates an 11-mile trip with 23 stops and an average speed of 20 mph, and the highway mpg test simulates a 10-mile trip with no stops and an average speed of 48 mph. Both EPA tests simulate driving on level, straight, dry road at 68–86 degrees with the vehicle’s air conditioning turned off."

Who drives at 48 MPH on the highway? And 20 MPH in the city? I don't think most people would consider these to be real-world driving conditions. It shouldn't be any surprise to be getting less than 51 MPG if you typically drive 60 to 70 MPH on the highway as most people do.

One of the other big issues is that a small difference (on a percentage basis) between actual mileage and EPA estimates is more noticeable at higher mileages than at lower mileages. If a Prius gets 10% less MPG on the highway (46 MPG instead of 51 MPG), people make a big deal about it, but if a Lincoln Navigator gets 14.5 instead of 16, nobody seems to care. The same proportional difference gets inflated for cars like the Prius.

The next time someone gives you grief about not getting the advertised mileage, take the opportunity to educate them about how unrealistic the EPA test is. If it's you who is not pleased with your MPG, slow down! Or at least adopt a more realistic expectation. Even if you're only averaging in the 40s, that's still pretty darn good. Besides, you're still driving the lowest emissions mass-produced car available today, and that's what's really important, isn't it? :mrgreen:

- Scott

 

Re: How the EPA tests are conducted

Of course there are times when people in overpopulated areas would LOVE to average 20 mph on the highway. :lol:

 

Actually there is a legal way to introduce the contents of these message boards into evidence. An expert witness can rely on these, in part or in whole, to reach a conclusion regarding the real world gas mileage of the Prius and then be allowed to testify in court as to the basis of that opinion.

 

Why would I embellish my 78MPG figure? I'll admit, this was with properly inflated tires, and only a small luggage rack, and 300 pounds of food for the homeless in the trunk, and I was exceeding the speed limits just a tiny bit, on the way to charity events to help homeless, hungry children of judges. I tried to get low mileage so that I could join the lawsuit, but I just couldn't get below 70MPG even while doing donuts in my church parking lot.

-A. Lyer

 

I get better than EPA in my present car a 99 Ford Explorer, the last tank is at 22.6 m.p.g. about half city/rural and half highway. This does not always happen but I am usually above the 19 m.p.g. for this model, engine, and year. In fact I am usually near the highway miles. Can I get to the EPA and below, yes but I have to get crazy, speeding, jack rabbit starts last minute breaking and generally driving on the edge. I guess I am getting a bit old for that stuff.
I expect to do well in my Prius when it arrives (soon please soon or at least this year). I will keep the Ford for what it does well towing, off road/logging roads and bad weather. I wish I could have done something like this earlier but I could not keep up payments for two cars.

 

well guess Toyota is in real trouble because their corolla wont get 36 mpg in highway driving.

but i dont remember when i seen a car that got epa rated mileage.

my Ford F-150 pickup has fuel injection and was supposed to get 18 and 21 mpg. well it doesnt.

its more like 15 at the most. i once got close to 16.5 mpg but that was on a straight freeway drive of 800 miles. other than a few occasions, i didnt track mileage. too depressing i guess.

 

Okay. We all know that the mileage figures come from the EPA, not from Toyota, and that the government requires Toyota to post those figures. So the lawsuit, on the face of it, is preposterous. But we also know that lawyers are not stupid, and if they're bringing this suit it's because they expect to make money off of it.

So there's two possibilities that I can think of. One was mentioned earlier in this thread: they hope for a settlement from Toyota to get rid of the nuisance, even though the suit has no merit.

But there's another possibility: they may be soliciting money from car owners to finance the suit: If they can get 1,000 owners to give them $100 each, that ain't peanuts. The money goes into their pockets, to pay their time; the suit is thrown out of court, and they tell their clients, "Sorry, the judge was against us."

 

:roll: Hmmm...I must not bein the "most people" catagory as I have kept a notebook clipped to the visor in every car that I have ever owned. Don't really know why I do it but I think it's because my Dad always did. My brother does this also.

 

Of course, we could all file a class action lawsuit against the lawyers for for libel for filing a class action lawsuit against Toyota for printing the legally required numbers on the vehicles sticker.

 

Maybe you can go the slander route. Those lawyers are basically saying that people who claim they get anywhere near the EPA number must be lying. Otherwise, their suit would be baseless. (which it is)

 

These sorts of legal actions really get me upset. Usually, I find that I can ease my unhealthy irritation simply by writing and sharing my feelings.

Here's the note I sent to their email address:

"My 2004 Toyota Prius only averages 48.1 mpg (excellent, but that's beside the point). Shouldn't, though, your suit be against the EPA for for providing the inflated numbers? Although, at times, I've achieved the 55 mpg overall EPA mileage, I've not gotten the 60 mpg noted for city driving. Toyota should be sued for this?

Isn't it just possible that your proposed class-action lawsuit against the hybrid makers is just a bit frivolous. Isn't it just possible that actions like the one you're proposing is, to a significant degree, responsible for driving inflation (the enemy for retired folks such as myself). Of course, I'm sure you don't believe you'll win a case like this one, but, on the other hand, as is usually the case, you'll win an out-of-court settlement, simply because the manufacturers will find it less expensive to just settle rather than go to the even greater expense of fighting something like this in court.

Sure wish our country could go back to the days when lawsuits like the one you're proposing would be laughed out of court. Obviously though, in this day in age, it's not a laughing matter; it's just sad."

Ah, now there, I feel better already.

 

What is really sad is that any settlement will be spread out over the rest of the life cycle of the Prius so that the price will have to go up. So, in effect future buyers get the burden of what the politicians will not fix. I guess we should examine the politics and vote in the ones that will fix this burden on our society. There are many important issues, but this is costing the American people billions of dollars every year.

Atoyot

 

Maybe we should all contact the law firm and get involved in the case?
"My toyota prius only gets 50 mpg!!!"
Really, what is the complaint here? One could probably easily sell the car at cost immediately.

For those who are interested. The law firm website is:
http://www.brennanlaw.com/