Language Metamorphosis in Real Time

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Apr 26 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]430664[/snapback]</div>

There are excellent resources, some on the Internet by way of universities, regarding the origins of the English language. While further standardization of the language might improve on one's ability to correctly spell words because they ALWAYS conform to uniform rules, would it mean that the word "taco" should be spelled "taccoe" so that it mirrors phonetical rules within English?

The point being, English is a conglomerate language, one which has origins from other languages such as Latin, Old German, Scandanavian tongues, Old French, Celtic, etc. The sometimes illogical reasons that words are spelled the way that they are is because the original spelling or pronunciation of the word(s) come from the words' original language branches, or because a lesser-educated scribe wrote the word(s) incorrectly to begin with. As scribes were considered "educated", their miswritings became the "correct" English of that period. Similarly, would it mean that mispronunciations such as "perfesser" for professor, "perfissional" instead of professional, "pervide" for provide should become acceptable as correct English?

Language is a functioning art. In that art, some are better at it than others. However, while we are not all painters, singers or sculptors, the art of language is one that we all must use every day and in order to not be reduced to a people that cannot intercommunicate, we must strive to master it.

China, India and Italy are examples of countries who have difficulty speaking to their own compatriots because of vast differences in dialects. Would it be wise for English to "mature" to such a level?

Even today in the U.S. our television broadcasters are not held to the standard of the broadcaster's English of yesteryear. There have been times when I barely understood them!

No, learning a language is important, even with all of English's illogical spelling. Aspire thyself and better thyself for no one shall do it for thee!

 

Did I go too far with this topic? Sometimes language can get you in trouble, too!

 

A tramp in Britain is a bum in America, while a bum in Britain is a fanny in America, while a fanny in Britain is - well, we've covered that

...in Britain the Royal Mail delivers the post, not the mail, while in America the postal Service delivers the mail, not the post.

From Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson. English is not my native language, 90% of the time I have no idea which variant I'm using. After reading this book, I've become convinced it's a miracle we get even close to understanding each other half the time... Recommended reading for anyone who wants to have a laugh and learn something about the origins of English at the same time.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lowlander @ Apr 26 2007, 03:23 PM) [snapback]430739[/snapback]</div>

That's a wonderful tongue-in-cheek book! Also try "The Story of English" by Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, and "The Power of Babel" by John McWhorter.

And now that everyone's pumped up on learning better English ( ), take it a step further and learn a foreign language!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimCarlos @ Apr 26 2007, 03:38 PM) [snapback]430713[/snapback]</div>

Gnomon, ya done good. Key pit up.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lowlander @ Apr 26 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]430739[/snapback]</div>

Tongue-in-cheek definition, given me by a man who fit the definition:

Tramp = Train-Riding American Moving Person.

He continued with the following definitions:

Hobo: A person who travels and works.
Tramp: A person who travels but does not work.
Bum: A person who neither travels nor works.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimCarlos @ Apr 26 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]430758[/snapback]</div>

While learning a foreign language is a lot of work, it is well worth it. Being able to speak another language is tremendous fun, gets you great respect when you travel to the country where that language is spoken, opens up a whole new world of literature, and opens your mind to new ways of thinking about things, as your new language allows forms of expression that do not exist in your native language.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Apr 26 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]430664[/snapback]</div>

No. Whoever decided it was "peach" and not "peech" was wrong.

I think words are introduced to the language and meanings are modified a lot faster than spelling is changed. But yes, language is a living entity and does evolve.

Anyone remember when there was no such word/thing as a "FAX"?

Then there's "Bling". "Jiggy". "Frindle".

Okay, the last is from a book. It's about a boy that invents a word and tries to get it introduced into the language as a class project.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 26 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]430861[/snapback]</div>

Most definately

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 26 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]430861[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I remember well my first month in Brazil and how I told someone that my Coppertone oil contained cocoa butter and s**t oil (côco is coconut but cocô is slang for s**t!). How much FUN everyone had with that one!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 26 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]430861[/snapback]</div>

Amazingly, when they find out that you are American and giving it your all to function in their language they love you for it (except the Europeans who already speak English sometimes better than a native speaker!).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 26 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]430861[/snapback]</div>

After 33 years of speaking Portuguese I can tell you that it really does open the world of literature and music.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 26 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]430861[/snapback]</div>

English has many more words adopted from other languages which, within the context of English, provide nuance to the language whereas Latin-based languages do not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimCarlos @ Apr 26 2007, 10:17 PM) [snapback]430937[/snapback]</div>

Was that on purpose, Tim? You were doing so well...
(definitely) B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimCarlos @ Apr 26 2007, 11:03 PM) [snapback]430758[/snapback]</div>

I did, my foreign language is English

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrin @ Apr 26 2007, 10:37 PM) [snapback]430949[/snapback]</div>

Long day, lack of attinshun, fat fingers... :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimCarlos @ Apr 26 2007, 08:17 PM) [snapback]430937[/snapback]</div>

English has a larger vocabulary than most other languages, and this help it to be a very rich and varied language. But any other language will have words for ideas or concepts we don't have in English, and whenever you have different grammatical constructs you introduce possibilities for new forms of expression. Ever since learning Spanish I have felt crippled in English by the lack of a subjunctive. (Which technically we have, but in practice we don't.) Also, words have both a meaning and a tone. Sometimes a word in one language has a very different tone than a word with the same or similar meaning in another language. All of this enriches the mind of the bi-lingual or multi-lingual person.

I bet Lowlander speaks between 6 and 10 languages, and I'll eat my hat if he/she speaks fewer than 4.

We Americans are, by and large, linguistic midgets.

 

Some other misuses:

"I am nauseous." Since nauseous means causing nausea, the statement means, "I cause nausea." The correct useage is, "I am nauseated."

"I'm so anxious to see a good movie." Since anxious is the adjective of anxiety then that quote would mean that seeing a good movie causes anxiety to the person. Change anxious to eager and the intent would be correct.

Those two examples were brought to my attention by an English couple noting the differences between the useage of the English language by the British versus "the colonists". I must say that in this case they are correct.

Now, where are my bangers?!

Tim

 

ZOMG! WTH are u tlking abt? I mean, c'mon, git wit da shizzle on my nizzle ppl! PLZ!

I would place the blame for the rapid degeneration of the English language on laziness in general. Thanks to the widespread abuse and overuse of abbreviations and slang, our beloved language has eroded.

However, it's a simple cure. Everyone, myself especially, should pick up a good novel once in a while and read it. Far too often I have allowed the literary works in my bookcase to collect dust. Another way to lead us all to resolution is to find a more eloquent way to word our speech - whether we're talking to someone in person, over the phone, or in a forum.

But yo, dawg, it's all good! We just be gittin down in da hood and shootin da brizzle on the fo rizzle!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ozyran @ Apr 28 2007, 11:08 AM) [snapback]431681[/snapback]</div>

The trouble with picking up a good book is that today's editors often suffer from the problem of not knowing proper English. Excepting novels, which tend to be written in the vernacular of the day, American books written in a documentary fashion tend to use incorrect grammatical construction.

To wit, in a previous post in this thread I cited a book by John McWhorter. While the book is good in the examination of and the comprehension of the evolution of languages, the author uses "thus" so much that it becomes annoying, uses "and yet" or "but yet" frequently throughout the book, and constructs sentences which use so many commas as to cause the reader to have to reread the sentence and unmangle it in order to understand it. While I love linguistic decoration in someone's writing or speaking (or would that be speaching?! ), repetition and/or misuse is horrific.

Now, what are shizzle, rizzle, brizzle, and nizzle - and are you sure that those are the correct spellings?! :lol:

As for my question, "Now, where are my bangers?", in Britain a banger is a type of sausage. I wouldn't want anyone to "misconscrew" [sic] my humor!

Tim

 

Just some quotes from Verbicide by David W. Orr. I love the book it came from.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimCarlos @ Apr 26 2007, 12:10 PM) [snapback]430610[/snapback]</div>

Why is 'like' now being used instead of 'about'? I've noticed this often on PC. (E.G. "I drove like 10 miles and we were like 3 hours on the road."
Is this recent or has it been around for decades? It's not entirely an American usage. I've heard it in the UK but only from teenagers.
Another change that seems recent to me is the use of "train station" instead of "railway station". This now seems almost universal, at least with those below a certain age.

But in my experience language does change, evolve, during our lifetimes and perhaps this is now accelerated by TV. I can think of several words and expressions used by my father's generation which are now never heard.

When I was a kid my grandmother used to say to me (in a strong London accent) when I left the house, "Mind the 'orses!". But my parents said "Careful when you cross the road."
Today parents say to the kid, "Don't go on your own. I'll take you in the car."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimCarlos @ Apr 26 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]430610[/snapback]</div>

How do you pronounce "ask"?

Nearly half of the respondants will say "aks" (as in "axe"); very prevelent in the Midwest, more noticable in some ethnicities. Drives me crazy! :angry: I want to say, "Learn to read, the s sound comes first, then the k sound. Simple phonics.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oxo @ Apr 29 2007, 02:09 PM) [snapback]432162[/snapback]</div>

Due to the crazy drivers in Dallas, I'm sure that today's parents of newly-licensed kids must have a new take on your grandmother's, "Mind the 'orses," and have combined it with your parents', "Careful when you cross the road," resulting in, "Careful with the asses!" :blink: But that's just my guess....! :lol:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nelda @ Apr 29 2007, 02:50 PM) [snapback]432170[/snapback]</div>

I say "ask". However, I read recently that it came from a specific accent/dialect of England. It would be stupid of me to even try to remember and name the region right now but I'll try to find the book and the passage and I'll let you know.

Today I was watching Planet Earth on the Discovery Channel and noticed that the narrator's pronunciation for "water" was "worter". Not just occasionally but consistently.