Lane Tracking Assist Issue

I would say yes, they would just hit them.
Hey, I've been driving around Denver and haven't seen your Prius! Or any for that matter....

 

Blackat: I don't know anyone with the full self driving feature, but will ask if I meet someone who does.

I bee-bob around south Denver mostly and also still have yet to see another Gen5 anywhere. I'll be doing my 4th trip to/through Colorado Springs later this week and head up to Keystone in a few weeks. I am curious how the car will handle the pass to the Eisenhower tunnels. For non-Colorado folk that is the part of I-70 get gets up to 11,000 feet crossing the continental divide. On either side of it is a very long traction battery killing climb. In my Gen1 and Gen3, it is a shock when the battery runs out and you have just gas power, the available power suddenly drops with no more electric assist. Neither car can keep the posted speed limit (65 or 75) at that grade once there isn't any electric assist. I have high expectations for the Gen5.

will

 

How long is the climb? With my dear Gen2 it never happened to me in almost 16 years and 255k miles to be completely out of battery power (except a tire dealer (!) once managed to get the battery icon down to 0 bars AND drive repeatedly with the "handbrake" on..)

Your Gen5 is gorgeous btw, I ordered black but I think Cutting Edge silver is the best looking one.

 

I live in Winter Park and flogged it up Berthoud Pass a lot already and drove to Aspen for work 2-3 times also. I don't have the Prime but man it did really well. Plenty of power going up the I-70 corridor and Berthoud.

 

The drive from the Denver metro area is about 53 miles, going from about 5500 feet to about 11,200 feet.

 

The New Cars Features makes mention of capacitative sensors.

Reading all the specs and manuals carefully, my current belief is that there is a capacitative function, but it's only in cars with LCA (Lane Change Assist), and those will have the heated steering wheel. It's a combination of sensors in that wheel, and something else in the computers.

When the LCA+FCTA is added as a package in the Japan U trim, the heated steering wheel comes with it, and the chapter about LTA makes the "vehicles with LCA" or "without LCA" distinction about sensing the drivers hands. The former clearly being capacitative - warning about gloves potentially causing problems.

(I haven't figured out which US trims have LCA or FCTA, if any. Maybe none do. The complaints I've seen here about FCTA seem like they could actually about PKSB.)

 

ReallyReal: As HacksawMark mentioned, that is the total miles and climb, but that 53 miles isn't all climbing. There is the initial big hill leaving Denver, then a lot of up and down before the final hill leading up to the tunnels. The up/down between the two hills is perfect for the battery. What has wiped out the traction battery in my two previous Prii is the last long hill up to the tunnels, I haven't measured it, but seem to recall 10-ish miles of in-interrupted serious grade with no opportunistic charging places. That climb at interstate speeds is more than enough to completely drain the battery of a regular hybird. I will have drained the EV part of my battery reserve well before then, so this will be a test of the "HV reserve" area. On the way back I will have charged up in town to the west of the tunnels, so will be able to take at least some of the hill in EV mode before dropping to HV mode. Neat part is I'm hoping for a whole lot of charging on the way home!

Yea, this is way off topic now. I may post something in anther thread with the results. Maybe should stick to lane tracking.

One good test of cap vs torque for the steering wheel hand detection: My buddy with a Tesla said he answered that question by getting a small weight he tied to the wheel so it "tugged" just a bit and that kept is car happy thinking his hands were on the wheel. He said he crossed most of Kansas that way without ever touching the wheel. Kinda scary from my perspective, but clearly he got his answer!

will

 

I'm nowhere near 100% certain of this, but I think LCA is only on the PHEV Prime in the US. I've got a top-trim HEV with every option and LCA doesn't seem to be active on my car. I've tried it a few times and nothing's happened. And LCA was listed in the original Prius Prime press release but was absent from the regular Prius press release.

 

FWIW, in the US at least, the only model that doesn't come standard with heated steering wheel is the non-prime LE. I'm skeptical about the capacitive sensor stuff being connected to LCA, as well, but information on this is difficult to find for US models.

I took a gander and couldn't find any concrete evidence of LCA being offered on any Prius model in the US, Prime or otherwise. There are articles floating around from before release saying the Prime would have it, but I can't find any actual confirmation of this post-release.

Either Toyota's website is missing the feature in its spec lists, or the manual mentioning glove removal and such is in error (or just a generic blurb). Japan might simply be getting features we aren't. Either way, I've not really seen any evidence thus far that any US model offers capacitive sensors or LCA.

 

Yeah, the total lack of LCA or FCTA in US specs I could find made me wonder if you had them, and I couldn't see any firm evidence from posts here of people here having them.

FCTA adds the front side radar. All European cars have FCTA+LCA. The FCTA itself is at most a polite beep about approaching side traffic on junctions - it doesn't take any control action. But the added side radar does extend the PCS active capability

The European manual is the same as the US one with regard to the "with LCA". On the other hand, the Japanese one omits the "with LCA" qualifiers - even though they don't necessarily have it.

Looking in the European parts database, I seem to recall I saw a hint about sensors in the steering wheel parts descriptions, but my memory may be failing me, and I don't currently have my subscription active.

I've not used the things much, but so far I could happily believe it's capacitative in mine (which has LCA).

(While staring at all this I spotted something that surprised me - no Japanese cars have the driver monitoring.)

 

I couldn't find it anywhere on Toyota's specs even for PHEV Prime.

LCA and FCTA are clearly disjoint from the primary safety settings like PCS, RCTA, PKSB, RSA. Most of the latter tend to want to be on by default and can't be permanently shut off (at least in Europe). The speed limit beeps enabled at every startup are one of the car's most distinctive features mentioned in reviews.

LCA and FCTA are "assist" options tucked away in a submenu, and LCA isn't even on by default.

If you had it, it should be in Vehicle Settings, near the Regenerative Brake and TPWS settings.

 

It definitely isn't present in mine; and I've scoured those menus a bunch of times trying to find anything to adjust the sensitivity of the LTA steering input detection because of how annoying this is.

EDIT:
While looking through the repair manual, I did find this:


This sorta suggests that heated wheel and "touch sensor" are mutually-exclusive options, but it's not very clear (one could theoretically be inclusive of the other). I haven't found any other references to a "touch sensor" anywhere.
The power steering ECU also contains a torque sensor; it's very likely that this is the normal way the system detects driver input.

 

I have the (Pretty) Prius Prime XSE Premium. I like alliteration, but that is a lot of P's! It definitely has Lane Change Assist. LCA is one of the zillion icons you scroll through in the MID settings menu. I agree the manuals aren't clear, so didn't believe it until I saw the menus on teh car itself. As mentioned earlier, it works, but not well and I believe it is user error, I'll be giving it another try on a 200-ish mile road trip tomorrow. It has the heated steering wheel too, though I have not had reason to test it yet.

One issue is sometimes it keeps changing lanes, it doesn't stop after changing one lane. I think that is due to me not using the temporary turn indicator and clicking it hard. Other times it behaves as you'd expect, centering itself in the new lane, and I think that is when I am using the temporary turn indicator mode. I still initiate the lane change though and think that may be me just being impatient. Again, need to do some more testing. The highway between Denver and Colorado Springs has a lot of traffic though, so not the best place to be doing testing.

will

 

I have the (Pretty) Prius Prime XSE Premium. I like alliteration, but that is a lot of P's! It definitely has Lane Change Assist. LCA is one of the zillion icons you scroll through in the MID settings menu. I agree the manuals aren't clear, so didn't believe it until I saw the menus on teh car itself. As mentioned earlier, it works, but not well and I believe it is user error, I'll be giving it another try on a 200-ish mile road trip tomorrow. It has the heated steering wheel too, though I have not had reason to test it yet.

One issue is sometimes it keeps changing lanes, it doesn't stop after changing one lane. I think that is due to me not using the temporary turn indicator and clicking it hard. Other times it behaves as you'd expect, centering itself in the new lane, and I think that is when I am using the temporary turn indicator mode. I still initiate the lane change though and think that may be me just being impatient. Again, need to do some more testing. The highway between Denver and Colorado Springs has a lot of traffic though, so not the best place to be doing testing.

will

 

I have the (Pretty) Prius Prime XSE Premium. I like alliteration, but that is a lot of P's! It definitely has Lane Change Assist. LCA is one of the zillion icons you scroll through in the MID settings menu. I agree the manuals aren't clear, so didn't believe it until I saw the menus on teh car itself. As mentioned earlier, it works, but not well and I believe it is user error, I'll be giving it another try on a 200-ish mile road trip tomorrow. It has the heated steering wheel too, though I have not had reason to test it yet.

One issue is sometimes it keeps changing lanes, it doesn't stop after changing one lane. I think that is due to me not using the temporary turn indicator and clicking it hard. Other times it behaves as you'd expect, centering itself in the new lane, and I think that is when I am using the temporary turn indicator mode. I still initiate the lane change though and think that may be me just being impatient. Again, need to do some more testing. The highway between Denver and Colorado Springs has a lot of traffic though, so not the best place to be doing testing.

will

 

KMO: That speed limit beeping thing sounds really annoying, almost as annoying as the reverse beeper in the Gen3s! It must be a legal requirement thing for the EU. For the US version it just turns the speed indicator red and nothing else, no beeping. Catering even more to us American speeders, we even get a setting for how far above the speed limit we can go before it turns red! I am a die-hard speed limit follower and it is a rare occasion I ever pass a car, I am always being passed. I only speed up if I am clearly backing up traffic on a major highway where I can see lots of cars stacked behind me waiting to get in the faster lane.

will

 

Yikes, sorry about the three identical posts, I was having that issue where you'd hit post and it would just timeout. I guess it was posting after all. I can see how to edit a post but not delete it entirely.

 

It's a new regulation - applying to new models approved after July 2022, and pre-existing models by 2024 - and the Prius is one of the first cars to follow it. Lots of people are very grumpy.

It starts flashing at you if the indicated speed is 2km/h above what it thinks the limit is (often wrong) - so you're not actually above the limit - and then after a few seconds it'll beep three times, and then carry on flashing some more, then eventually stop flashing. (The EU has mercy on you and says it shouldn't beep for more than five seconds to minimise driver annoyance ). It stays quiescent as long as the speedometer stays above the limit, but if you drop below (not 100% sure of the threshold), it will go through the procedure next time it hits speed+2.

It has to be flashy+beepy every time you turn the car on, so the audio/visual settings for that don't stick, and there's no threshold adjustment. The quickest way to turn it off I've found is to turn off the RSA totally (left, left, left, left, hold OK). I'd prefer to switch it to "visual only" but you can't get into that submenu while moving, so it's going to end off totally deactivated more than I'd prefer. And that earns a permanent orange warning light.

If you don't disable it, it encourages you to try to stay well above the speed limit to not retrigger the alarms - you're aware that slowing down too much will make it start beeping again.

Here are some very cross Mazda 3 drivers: Speed limit alerts cannot be disabled anymore on EU MY 2024 | Mazda World Forum - but it sounds like their system is easier to suppress (by a single button to disable all alerts?)

 

On a positive note, at least it means they're basically compelled to give us working no-subscription off-line in-car navigation to make that work. (And give us free updates to it for 7 years, I note from the law. I'll hold them to that).

Another amusing thing I note in the law is that they've acknowledged how rubbish current systems are in that they've only required cars to show the correct speed limit for 90% of the total distance in a test (and 80% of the distance on each of the three road types urban, non-urban and motorway). It's allowed to be wrong 20% of the time on a particular road type!

 

Other manufacturs are way less strict (3kmh high speed tolerance and takes 3-6s before beeping) and make it really easy to deactivate it (e.g. Mercedes - single button mute) but then Toyota is not very Europe centric so probably didnt give it much thought or just dont care. I hope they will learn and perhaps even patch it a little bit but given their track record thats probably highly unlikely - despite all the ads about OTA in the Prius

EDIT: It might help if more european prius users complain - or give feedback?

 

KMO: wow, that is annoying. Just in my driving around Colorado I've noticed how many times the noted speed is wrong too. All for decent reasons where I can even see why. One was simply a case of the car seeing the speed sign on the frontage road for an interstate highway. Yep it saw it and read it correctly, just not applicable to me.

That is funny how it essentially encourages you to keep speeding too!

will