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I've gone solar.

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Godiva, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 10 2007, 01:59 PM) [snapback]493666[/snapback]</div>
    I'm measuring my closet and wondering how high he can mount it so I get the most space underneath. The closet goes right up to the ceiling. The unit is only 23 inches tall and less than 14 inches wide. Depending on the model it's either 6 inches deep or 9 inches deep. Either would be fine. I started looking at tankless in 1994 when my previous water heater needed to be replaced. I was talked out of it by the plumber and now my current water heater needs to go. So now I am going tankless.

    I've made a lot of improvements. I'm sure I've overbuilt for the neighborhood. But I'm not flipping my house. And I've found for every dollar I put in to the house I get a return of two dollars or more in value the next time I go to have my home appraised. (I bought at $80,000 in 1987, most recent appraisal: $525,000) I know in the coming years solar will be desired. And because my house is so small, I'm sure getting the space back from the water heater as well as endless hot water will also be attractive to anyone that might be buying my house (after I'm dead.)

    I'm putting in an Elfa closet system in the master bedroom closet next. I decided on that rather than the cheaper Home Depot stuff that I have in the other two closets because it's *my* closet.

    And while I certainly keep in mind how these decisions increase the value of my home, the bottom line is I do what I want to live with, not whether some generic future owner is going to like it or not. I hate neutrals so my house has color, both inside and out.

    All of the hardscape is in so it's a matter of planting and maintaining. I can't wait to retire so I can work in the yard even more.

    And for those following the saga, I've finished hanging my second slab door. The french door off the kitchen is in and swings quite well without binding anywhere. Huzzah!.
     
  2. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheForce @ Aug 10 2007, 01:17 PM) [snapback]493649[/snapback]</div>
    If your considering ground up construction, you may want to consider designing with passive solar in mind. This will limit the amount of overall energy required for your heating and cooling costs. So you should also save money as you wouldn't require such a large solar system as you would without the passive solar design.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 10 2007, 02:26 PM) [snapback]493680[/snapback]</div>
    Just put these in all my closets as my closets are my only storage space. Love the volume that my closets can now accommodate, love that they are completely adjustable and that the design can be amended as conditions warrant, love that they were soooo easy to install and love that I got them during the annual sale and saved a ton of money.
     
  3. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Aug 10 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]493681[/snapback]</div>
    i don't wanna step on godiva's topic but here are some of my thoughts on our passive solar place: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=30518
     
  4. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Aug 10 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]493681[/snapback]</div>
    What annual sale?
     
  5. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    'round here the Container Store retails the system and has an annual sale. It's a frenzy and you have to wait for sales clerk, but it's worth it. I got 30% off the entire system for all my closets. They have a computer where you provide your closet dimensions and they help design the closet system for your needs. It's awesome.

    Or you can order from the internet. Not sure if the sale (I don't remember when that occurs) would apply to internet orders, but you can inquire. Link......

    http://www.containerstore.com/search/searc...tml?search=elfa
     
  6. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Well, it looks like it's going to be a while before my system is up and running. The city inspector was here and won't pass the system until I upgrade all of my electrical. I have no idea how many thousands of dollars that's going to cost me. But I reamed the Borrego Solar guys a new one. I specifically asked if my current system could handle the addition of the solar before I even started this project and I was told yes. I said I didn't want to have to upgrade all of my electrical and I was told no problem the existing system could handle it. Now the inspector says it won't. He also says that he should have been called to do an evaluation before work was ever started. Something I told the Borrego Solar people last week. He also said SDG&E should have done the same. Something I told the Borrego Solar people last week. I also told them *that* was the service call I set up for yesterday that the doofus idiotic moron project manager canceled. "I told you so" doesn't do me any good but I am sure going to use it profusely. I'll be sharing my concerns about the project manager's abiltiy to do his job and whether he should continue to enjoy his current employment status with the owner of Borrego Solar on Monday. I doubt anything is going to come of it because I'm pretty sure the doofus is the boss' son. I did repeat what I said last week to the installers to the Borrego Solar guy (and the inspector) today that the doofus project manager Josh should have hauled his a$$ to my house and looked it over and set up all of the evaluation inspections two weeks before any work was ever done. Then set up all of the inspections and service calls in plenty of time. That way they'd have an organized plan of installation instead of this long, drawn out install by the seat of our pants thing.

    Well, they've got $23,000 worth of solar on my roof and only have $1,000 of my money in their pocket. If they want to get paid, they better get my system up and running. If they're smart, they'll offer to upgrade my system for free or at an extreme discount just to make up for all of the careless planning, delays and the general incompetance of their moron project manager.

    In the mean time I've got all these panels on my roof looking all shiney and new and doing....nothing.

    I think I'll go demolish my closet now.
     
  7. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 10 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]493749[/snapback]</div>
    Ouch - that sucks. I think your plan is a good one - withhold payment until they get your electrical system upgraded. Know any good attorneys?
     
  8. n8kwx

    n8kwx Member

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    Godiva,

    I have heard of tankless water heaters that are weatherproof and designed to be mounted OUTSIDE of the house. These are for temperate climates, but I think San Diego certainly qualifies. This would save you closet space.

    Sorry to hear about the inspection. I checked out your web page and your panel is tiny by modern standards. But ironically, the grid-tie PV system would reduce the need for a larger service drop...

    Hope it ends well.

    Marc
     
  9. priussoris

    priussoris New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 10 2007, 11:45 AM) [snapback]493636[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks :) I'm happy now, but I am calling chopper 5 now to take an aerial view :D

    Sorry about the inspectors answer, it is probably in your best intrest to upgrade to at least a 100 amp service, but whiile your doing it a 200 amp service may not be that much more.
    60 amp service is a thing of the past. Just like you said, go after the doofus who should have known better before selling you their pv's. and getting a pre inspection done.
     
  10. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priussoris @ Aug 11 2007, 06:44 AM) [snapback]493936[/snapback]</div>

    According to the inspector, even 100 amp service isn't enough. I need 125. And I agree. If I'm going to upgrade, why upgrade to only exactly what I currently need? Better to anticipate future needs. Who knew 50 years ago we'd have TVs, VCRs, DVD players, digital clocks, microwaves and computers that would push our electrical needs beyond the standard 60. Apparently my circuit breaker box can handle more than the actual power coming in. Is the line from the street, down to the meter and from the meter to the box that the inspector says needs replacing. He says SDG&E might upgrade the line from the street for free because it is so old. Then he talked about having to do some carpentry to upgrade where it attaches to the house. More money and more ugly. Then he talked about the breake box moving from where it is in a closet to outside the house where the meter is. More and more ugly. And inconvenient. So I can come outside in the rair or dark when I want to turn off a breaker and work on something.

    I've got nightmares of whoever does this not only doing that but saying they can't move the existing wiring to the new location so I have to have the entire house rewired. I've got the old black cloth covered wire instead of romex. Well....I've got insulation and boards in the attic and lots of boxes stored up there. I can see him going up there and saying...you'll have to remove all of these boxes, then take up all of the boards and remove the insulation so I can drill through the studs and run new wiring.

    THIS IS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO AVOID.

    Well, we'll see what solution Borrego Solar comes up with. I consider this their problem as *I* asked over and over in an attempt to avoid this very problem.

    In the meantime, the tankless water heater is on hold.

    And did I mention that I go back to school in two weeks? So if it isn't done.....it's going to wait until at least Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter or next summer. I can't just take days off from school for this. And I told them all of this up front in JULY.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(n8kwx @ Aug 11 2007, 02:49 AM) [snapback]493921[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, but that would entail replumbing the existing pipes, thus adding to the cost. The tankless is on hold right now.
     
  11. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    ohhhh no! sounds like you did your part to make sure everything was taken care of and the solar company dropped the ball big time. i hope they do something for you for all the inconvenience and frustration you're going through.
     
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    As much as I want to get off of the grid and use a PV and/or wind energy alternative it's things like this that make me hesitant. The cost of the PVs alone is so high, if you start throwing in several thousand in additional wiring and such it can become a truely monumental expense.

    That said, we plan to build a new home in a few years and have every intention of making it solar and energy efficient, but I think incorporating everything into the initial build will be simpler and probably less expensive than an 'add-on' system.
     
  13. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 11 2007, 10:39 AM) [snapback]493976[/snapback]</div>
    It is. And I think a lot of solar companies are used to doing new builds. BUT....they should also be knowledgable on retro fitting older homes. It's their jobs as professionals to know the codes, evaluate the systems and create a plan on how to do an install before work ever starts. And if there is anything that the homeowner needs to know...like....gee you don't have enough power coming in and your circuit breaker board isn't big enough and is in the wrong place....the homeowner needs to know before work starts. One of the workmen who was planning to put in two more grounding rods asked me...is this city or county. I told him...I'm in the city. You don't even know where my house is? The codes are different for city and county. You need to know what the city codes are.

    The inspector said more than once; the system isn't up to code. It's grandfathered in and as long as you don't touch it you're fine. The minute you touch it, you have to bring the entire thing up to code. They should have known this. It was their job to know this.

    I'm waiting until Monday to see what they intend to do. I'm not calling them. I left a message with my sales rep. I'll let them stew and contact me. (After all, I still have $22,000 that they want.) I'm hoping they'll opt to do the electrical either gratis or for just the cost of materials. They can consider it a lesson learned and they'll know better the next time.

    If you're doing a new build, it pays to have the architect design it from the ground up to be passive solar, plus allow for installation of the PV, wind turbines and all of that from the start. It's much easier to do it with a new build. You won't have the problems in trying to retro fit new technology into an old house.

    But hey...I have cable TV and I have wireless internet. I also have a programmable thermostat. So it can be done. If I wanted to, I could also retrofit all of my original windows for tilt sash jambliners. (But not this year.)
     
  14. priussoris

    priussoris New Member

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    Sorry to hear all the problems with the install, My father was a master electrician, he would have loved to come out to CA. and do your job.
    He was a Commercial electrician then started/ operated his own electrical shop on wheels business up untill he passed away.

    Besides that when you talk about your water heater how are your pipes? copper, galvanized pipe, pvc, etc...
    the good stuff now is called PEX, it never breaks even if ir freezes , but you don't have to worry about that. :)

    may talk about that when the time comes with your plumber.

    I wish you the best on dealing with the solar company.
     
  15. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priussoris @ Aug 11 2007, 12:06 PM) [snapback]494005[/snapback]</div>
    I would have loved to treat your Dad to a great, home-cooked Italian dinner too.

    The entire house was replumbed with copper from the street in 2000 so I have all new lines. I had planned on eventually remodeling the bathroom, but when the pipes had to be replaced I had to remodel immediately because they had to get into the wall for the shower. I didn't want the outside cut so that meant demolishing the inside wall, which I did myself prior to the plumbers showing up. They did the pipes. Then I finished remodeling the bathroom. Took me four months of evenings and weekends but I'm happy with the result. I also reglazed my bathroom windows with new glass. Did it myself. I'll be getting some more practice as I have to reglaze my dining room windows now.

    Bathroom remodel.
     
  16. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 10 2007, 09:32 AM) [snapback]493567[/snapback]</div>
    The tankless might fit this application better then. They also work well for vacation homes or where you have very intermittent use, where you have more standby loss than the usual family (standby loss is the loss of heat out of the water as it sits, waiting to be used). Check on the venting, though, especially if the unit allows you to vent the combustion air as well as the flue products. Called "direct vent" in the industry, these units allow the vent termination to be much closer to an opening in the building than standard power vented units (where only the flue gas is power vented). The reason is that the direct vent setup does not create a "negative pressure" inside the room by drawing the air for combustion from the room. If your water heater is also in a living space, that can also save on heating bills (although probably not much here in California).

    Also, you probably already know this, but you may be eligible for a $300 tax credit on it ... the appliance has to have an energy factor of .80. A list of some of the ones certified for the credit are in this PDF file From GAMA

    Note on that chart the REAL efficiency ratings of these appliances ... most are at 80 - 84%, not the higher ratings you see advertised. Still, for your application, it makes sense to install one. It rarely does when the person is replacing a standard, 40 or 50 gallon tank type water heater. If space is available, a passive solar system is much more efficient.
     
  17. RonH

    RonH Member

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    Was this your contractor. The reason I mention it was I saw their Prius company car on the road the other day. Aside from the logos, it had a nice white to blue, top to bottom, fade paint job.
     
  18. priussoris

    priussoris New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 11 2007, 01:11 PM) [snapback]494025[/snapback]</div>
    GREAT JOB on the Bathroom, wow you did that yourself!!!!very nice

    I know who to call for my tile work now :D

    I have done our bath in phx. AZ put the hot tub in, tile all around etc... was not too bad I just hate plumbing.
    I would tell the wife every time I worked on the plumbing" I am not a plumber" then we bought a shell ( house with nothing but the walls) not even a poured floor. so we did the entire plumbing down to the supply and drain /waste /venting learned plumbing in 4 months. then poured the concrete floor, ran the electric etc... what fun

    it was a lot of fun back then. now forget it.

    Again nice work there.!!!! :)
     
  19. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RonH @ Aug 11 2007, 02:49 PM) [snapback]494032[/snapback]</div>
    Yes. And the sales rep did show up in a Prius.

    There is nothing wrong with the work the installers did. Very neat. The Inspector had no problem with it and said they are top notch.

    The problem I had was with their "project manager" Josh. He never saw my property. No evaluation of the existing electrical system was done. Neither SDG&E nor the City was called to inspect before the work was done. Had that happened I would have known about all of this before any work was done. AND Josh CANCELED a service call from SDG&E that *I* had set up that would have identified some of these problems.

    I think Josh is their weak link. That's where everything failed.
     
  20. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priussoris @ Aug 11 2007, 03:14 PM) [snapback]494037[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks. I really like tile. I started doing tile when I was in high school. Tile was my job when my parents remodeled their house. Also drywall.

    I actually like plumbing a lot more than electrical. I've put in boxes and hung ceiling fans and rewired lamps. Don't mind the lamps. But I really prefer plumbing. You can't drown doing plumbing but you can electrocute yourself if your not careful with the electric.

    I've sweated copper pipe. I put in PVC. I laid out all of the drip irrigation for the yard. I'll be crawling under the house to replace a gas feed line to the furnace unless the plumber who's giving me a bid on the tankless gives me a really good price on doing the furnace. I really hate crawling under the house even though I have a generous crawlspace.

    My Dad always said if you can't afford to hire someone you better learn to do it yourself. I'm a teacher, so pretty much in a constant state of poor. I do a lot myself. My sister does nothing. My brother does some. Probably as much as I do. But he always buys pretty new homes. So does my sister. I'm the only one in a considerably older home that needs a lot more work. I do enjoy looking at what I've accomplished and saying "*I* did that". It gives me more pleasure than spending the time and money to go away for a vacation.

    I've finished demolishing the closet. Now I'm just waiting for the drywall compound to dry so I can paint.