It's official: Bush sewage plant on the ballot

Personnally, we will never know how things would have worked out if we had done nothing in the past because now your talking about an alternate future. How do you know what the state of the U.S. would be if we had made different choices? Would they be better or worse? You assume things would be better. Could it actually be worse? If you know for a fact, then your insight into alternate history is beyond my understanding. You have the freedom to vote your choice. Should we have gone into South Korea during the 50's or should we have let N. Korea have their way? If you can predict which action from the past would be a positive or negative recourse for our country, then you should be a major consultant for the USA. There is a big difference between LIBS and Cons. Libs like to name call and assume only their thinking is right while Cons will analyze the situation and make a determination of a course of action based on the knowledge that currently exists. What would have happened if Clinton had made the decision to eliminate Osama when he was in our sights? Would 9-11 never have happened, we don't know unless you can look in the future. We elect our officials to make decisions that are assumed to be for our long term interest. This includes the Senate and Congress. There is way too much partisan behavior on both sides for the govt to be for the common people. They are only in this for their own personal agenda. I'm just very happy that I live in this great nation and I will accept the president that is voted in because we are a democracy. I have respect for the highest office and even if I don't agree with that person, I would never disrespect that person thru name calling and negative statements. But, you are entitled to your opinion as I think I am. If you think that Obama will do a wonderful job, vote for him. Currently, I do not care for either candidate and I may not know who I'm voting for until the last possible second. I have voted for both parties in the past and I accept whoever gets the office because I can vote again in 4 yrs.

 

Then please explain why Bush NOT GETTING Osama is a good thing, oh wise history man.

Yes, there is too much partisan BS, but there are no Conservatives, there are only religious Neo-Conservatives and Conservatives, mostly Democratic these days, weird huh.

We didn't go into South Korea, we went into Korea, and all we did was create a stalemate, luckily South Korea is doing ok, but it has more to do with luck than anything. Vietnam was a simular situation, only Vietnam won, and now are joining the commercialize world, two very different situations, what would have happened to Korea if the North have won, who knows, probably not good, but we would never know.

Question here, did you actually go investigate the actual situation about Clinton and Osama, or are you making an assumption from political facts? I researched it, and Clinton really didn't have much of a chance with Osama, the Sudanese were after money, and trying to get out from being considered terrorists, so they made overt "what ifs and how much money could we get", thats a long way from here he is.

Now Bush had not only Osama surrounded, but had the military in place to get him, why did he decide that Osama is unimportant at that moment?

You can't blame Clinton, and excuse Bush, when Bush had more than a possible opportunity.

For you, a title is enough to earn your respect, for me, you earn respect, thats why Bush being president means nothing to me, he hasn't earned the respect, he is just a political hack, just like most presidents, its what you do that earns the respect. Bush in all his actions as president, shows incompetetence, greed, mis-management, theft, and outright hatred towards the Constitution, that doesn't earn respect at all.

Even though he was a corrupt governor of my state, I gave him a chance as president, knowing full well that he would fail, just like everything he has ever done, and he didn't prove me wrong. And thats why he will never get my respect, he never earned it.

 

I was watching a program on the History Channel and they had interviews with the special forces guys that were to track Osama and possibly kill him. They had Osama in their sights at least twice and actually it was not Clinton that made the call, but one of his cohorts. One time, there would have been too many innocents in the way and the next time, they just would not make the call. Now either these special forces guys are lying or the History channel is the fiction channel. And I'm sure Clinton has the utmost respect for women. If the president wants to monitor all of my calls, go for it, I have nothing to hide. All I can say is that we have not been attacked on our home soil since 9-11 and the govt can search me all they want as long as it stays that way. I will gladly give up rights to stay safe. I just wish they would profile more than they do. Also, I realize that I will never win this argument with some folks, but I guarantee you that most people that I have talked to in Central IL. feel this way.

 

I had no idea there were that many Fascists in IL.

 

So its ok for Bush to not want Osama, but not Clinton, what a joke. I'm impressed, you would give up all your rights to be safe, nice, you have just spit on our founding fathers.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN

 

I'm just glad that I served my country so that you can keep freedom of speech, etc, and I respect your thoughts on this subject. In times of war and terrorism, changes must be implemented. I just wish I could serve again, but alas, I'm too old. I also wish Bush would have taken Osama out. You know, you can't win when it comes to talking about religion and politics, so I will capitulate on these subjects. How long will it be before California removes itself from the USA?

 

You don't have to serve in the military to protect American freedoms.

And I'm all for secession. I think the rest of the country is dragging us down. In fact, we had a long discussion on this. What states would join us. A Flag. etc.

 

As a former soldier I find that comment to be about the most revolting that I have every read on PC. And there's an awful lot of tripe bandied about on this sight.

So what you're saying is that we should dissolve our democracy in order to protect ourselves from a threat to it? If you were a real soldier you remember that oath that you took when you enlisted... you know, to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign AND domestic. Remember that? I believe you were holding up your right hand when you took that oath, or were you just lip-syncing it?

 

You serving kept no ones freedom of speech, thats fought at home. Military people have only fought political wars since WWII, with the possible exception of Afghanistan, but even thats questionable these days, nothing that defended our freedom or the country, other than Afghanistan, they are serving the the whim of the political, the wealthy, or both. I have the highest respect for our military, but they have been abused and conned into believing they are defending the country these days, and thats not the case.

I surrender nothing to politicians, they are nothing more than another common American, they are hired to do a job, they do it badly, they deserve no credit, they try to steal my freedoms, and they will answer to my vote and my wrath. Bush is a crook, his administration is corrupt, incompetent and traitorous, and I stand by that, its my right to fight for whats right for my country.

 

How out of touch are you?

... Brad

 

Obviously quite out of touch. Pelosi values have gone rampant, just hope it doesn't happen in IL.

 

To Abu Garcia,

"In times of war and terrorism changes must be made"
BULL! It is just at such times when the constitution must be protected! We are not at "War" Only congress can declare war, and they haven't had the balls to do so since WWII. They (congress) abnigates it's constitutional power and defers to the executive through the 'war powers act'. If we had genuine enemies then perhaps we would have honest debate, and honest declarations of war. As it is we have been "at war" since 1941 in one form or another. Everything from 'the war on drugs' to the 'global terrorism'. If we had thought about our foreign policy a bit better and LEARNED from history and past mistakes perhaps we wouldn't be where we are today. Bin Laden wanted us out of Saudi Arabia because he thought us infidels. The only reason we are in the middle east at all is to protect 'our' oil, and our economy. The fact is, as the chinese have taught us of late, the oil follows the money anyway, and we would have just as secure a supply as ever if we hadn't try to back up corrupt regeims over the years,,,from The Shah on!

The billions of dollars, and tens or hundreds of thousands of lives that have been spent to protect that oil would have been available for better uses. If we hadn't backed the wrong side all along (in the middle east) it is not only conceivable, but very likely that Bin Laden would be irrelevant. Same with the Wahabists in Saudi Arabia, the Mullahs in Iran etc.

So yes, I'm angry. I'm angry that our blood and treasure, and yes good will have been squandered by this low level hack from Midland Texas. Respect has to be earned, and he and almost his entire administration have been corrupt to the core and have done nothing but damage not only this country, but also the world!

Even with the blunders that eventually led to 9/11 on all sides, 9/11 engendered a HUGE amount of international sympathy and good will. A poll of Indonesian's taken shortly after 9/11 revealed a 90+% support for the USA. A few years later, thanks in large measure to GWB and his ilk, ALL that good will and sympathy has vanished! Indonesia in a 2006 poll showed only ~15% support for the USA.

If you want to continue to believe in these guys, feel free! I concede that in 200 years, the possibility of opening a history book to the GWB page reading "He had all the right ideas in the face of huge world opinion to the contrary" I hold out that possibility, but I think it way more likely that when you open ANY history book 200 years on you will read something like this: "GWB, without question the worst president in history! He did more to damage the country through corrupt administration, sweet heart deal to his political friends, not just foreign policy mistakes, but truly catastrophic blunders that took decades to repair. The 21st century should have been the time when the US used it's economic strength to solve many of the worlds problems from global warming to alternative energy, but instead wasted precious time and resources, paying off the debt incurred by GWB, rebuilding it's economy and infrastructure that had been neglected by GWB, and most importantly rebuilding it's place in the world as a leader of civilized nations. It was a cost that the nation has yet to recover"

Icarus

 

Wow, I didn't know that there were that many haters on this board. But, I'm still calm and respect all opinions on this subject. I may not agree, but I guess us folks in IL. (especially from my area) have different ideas, etc. Go ahead and name a Sewage plant after Bush if it makes you feel better. And if you take offense of my opinions, that's OK. I will not call anyone names or say that I'm ticked off about what you have to say. Good thoughts can be had without getting your shorts all tightened up. Did I ever say I liked bush? I don't think so. Your vote should count and I'm sure the congress and Senate are doing a wonderful job since most were voted in to change things and nothing has happened yet. Partisanship is killing the country!!!

 

What does that have to do with boobage?

... Brad

Sorry .... wrong thread.

 

I must have set some kind of record for you. Good to hear what you have to say because many in this country keep too quiet on important subjects.

 

Well, he says he's too old to serve now.

Maybe he fought in the Revolutionary War.

 

I'm certainly not a hater,, I certainly don't hate you. (If you don't like GWB you sure have spent a lot of time defending him and his administrations policies!)

No I don't even hate your opinion, I just think that you are ill informed, and wrong. As I said, I hold out the possibility that I too may be wrong! As for the Democrats in control of congress, for better or worse, we still have the filibuster in the Senate, which I'm sure you will know, makes it very hard for ANY legislation to pass without a +60 vote in the senate. The filibuster is a curious thing when you are either the party in or out of power. It represents a gigantic check on the potential tyranny of the majority. We like to think that we are a democracy and the "majority rules"! That god there are occasions when principled minorities have held up bad legislation to protect the minority! It stings a bit when you are in the majority, but it is a good thing.

So continue to think, and say what you wish. I urge you to read and understand thinking that runs counter to your own sets of opinions. I my self read as much that is written by people who disagree with me, as those that agree. I think it leads to better conclusions. Some thing GWB PROUDLY states he doesn't do. He not only doesn't read contrary opinion, he doesn't read anything! ("My pet goat" not with standing!)

If you only hear what you want to hear, you will learn nothing!

Icarus

 

Actually whats killing the country is capitualtion to the politicals and wealthy, which I'm sad to hear that even you, a military person has done, thats actually more scary than surrendering to Osama Bin Laden.

The founding fathers in this country, didn't want its citizens to surrender anything to its politicians, and wanted bad politicians to be ridiculed and voted out of office, sadly thats not the case anymore.

Bush whether you choose to believe it or not, is the worst kind of politician, every policy, every action, every appointment, has done nothing but hindered the country. He spent, with Congress's aquesesence, $9 Trillion during his administration, and almost all of it debt for future generations of Americans, thats nothing to be honored about, thats to be despised for any politician. Every action in the fight with Osama Bin Laden, has been to follow Bin Laden's plan to the letter, even leaving him and his legacy to keep the fight going. And yes, I can fault Clinton for not pursuing the matter futher with Bin Laden, but it in no way compares to the opportunity George W. Bush had, and thats tantamount to treason in my view.

And if your little area of the country thinks that everything is ok, and that George W. Bush was a great president, or that surrendering our founding fathers values to politicians is a good thing, it doesn't say a lot about you or your neighbors in my view.

And I'll end this with saying that the sewage treatment plant is undeserving of GWB's name, it gives sewage a bad name, but its the best he deserves.

 

But would dogs use it?