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Featured It has started, 48 volt hybrids arrive.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Trollbait, Jan 23, 2018.

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  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The 2018 F150s all have start/stop standard. With battery costs dropping, the price to add a little bit of regen with a 48 volt system. My choice for the thread title is because lowering costs and the pressures of emission and fuel economy regulation will push new cars into being a hybrid to some degree. I see new car choices that are what we call a traditional ICE to be a rarity before plug ins take over.
     
    #41 Trollbait, Jan 27, 2018
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I am happy to see improved engines but there is one handicap throttle plate controlled engines can not overcome:
    The effect of throttle valve positions on thermodynamic second law efficiency and availability of SI engine using bioethanol-gasoline blends - ScienceDirect

    . . . The results showed that the largest share of the irreversibility in the engine was the combustion process. In addition, the results showed that total exergy, burned fuel availability, availability with heat transfer and irreversibility for fuels, when the throttle valve is fully opened, were higher, compared to the 25%, 50%, and 75% throttle valve opening positions. Furthermore, it was found that the efficiency of thermodynamic second law in 25%, 50%, and 75% throttle valve opening positions was reduced to

    , 18.7%, 29%, 60.6% for E0
    , 21.5%, 32.7%, 61.5% for E20
    , 23%, 35.4%, 62.5% for E40
    , 22.8%, 35.5%, 63.3% for E60
    , 27%, 40%, 65% for E85

    fuels, respectively, compared to 100% position.    ​

    The reason our Prius have been so efficient is the hybrid transmission 'banks' excess power in the battery so the engine can be turned off rather than run in an inefficient, throttle position. The Prius has enough MG2 power to sustain the car speed during these engine off events until the battery needs more charge. But the car needs enough electric power to and from the battery.

    The 48V systems don't even come close. Worse, many of them lose significant power to the friction of turning the engine because they are on the accessory side. It was madness a decade ago and just as mad today. The Honda IMA was tolerable because the small displacement engine could get a significant, low end torque boost but not enough to compete with the Prius. But on a large displacement engine, it makes little sense.

    Everyone deserves a chance to experiment but hopefully with a credible model. Just my past Prius experiments gives me less confidence in the current claims. There are better areas such as full, variable valve control.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #42 bwilson4web, Jan 27, 2018
  3. Lucifer

    Lucifer Senior Member

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    I own a 15 ram ecodiesel and get 21-28 mpg.
    I find your post extremely offensive.
    I remember not long ago the moderators of priuschat warned the members not to go to the deisel sites and troll the diesels or suffer their membership privileges, no one did.

    Shall I start trolling you?
     
    #43 Lucifer, Jan 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
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  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Nothin' wrong w/ 21mpg ... unless you want even higher torque, AND over 90mpg (equivelent)
    our giant prius can do that, w zero particulate & CO2 ~

    [​IMG]

    of course the horsies get spooked if we are not using chill mode.

    [​IMG]

    Speaking of chill,
    it's all good
    .
     

    Attached Files:

    #44 hill, Jan 27, 2018
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Well, there are gas engines without throttle plates already on the road.

    As for these mild hybrid systems, they are just the first generation, and I'm not including them with BAS and IMA in evolutionary terms because of the large cost differences. The part companies supplying them are already working on having the HSG between the ICE and transmission, and together with the car companies, they are working to better match the system with the ICE operation. That will make them more effective than as a simple bolt on part.

    Full hybrids will always better results, but their cost is a major hurdle to adoption. Prius sales have been dropping. The segment has only been growing because of increased choices, and some of that is because of mild hybrids like eAssist being in cars. Those that really care about the efficiency are willing to pay the extra cost, but they are a minority.

    Most Americans really don't give enough of a shit to do so. These basic mild hybrid systems will give some benefit and are cheap enough that they will become standard in time, and the only option will be a hybrid to some degree.
     
    #45 Trollbait, Jan 28, 2018
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