Featured Is Toyota Prius hybrid simply passe now that plug-in cars are here?

hybrid is a long bridge, until BEV and Fuelcell prevail

 

. . . and warp drive? ... & until dilithium crystals prevail.

but seriously - passé ? Out of style ? Jeez, many people still have formica countertops. Other people feel compelled to change out their granite countertops because that's no longer the popular color scheme. changing granite countertops? Granite that will outlast your grandkids - simply because they can. Some of our neighbors have knocked down their house, & built another, just because they can. Our neighbor Sam - 3 or 4 houses away is on his 3rd house, just because he can. Really? a passé house? Meanwhile, the middle class (primary class that buy the Prius) is shrinking . . . . becoming passé. So from that perspective, the OP is kind of a funny question. Even as we dialogue about the many that don't have a place to plug in - many are fortunate just to have any kind of beater car at all.
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don't forget the flux capacitor, which doc brown is very close to perfecting.

 

until the All Spark prevail

 

This is the reason that I don't expect to have charging available at work.

This is where building codes need to change to get electric service for chargers out to parking spaces. Incentives and grants maybe needed to ease retrofitting pains. Permitting will likely need to be relaxed.

Reasonable plug in proponents know they won't work for everybody, but there are many for which they can, and we still have a ways to go before that market is saturated.

 

First off, not all plug-ins and hybrids are the same. Rather each needs to be compared objectively and realizing any particular model is going to be a 'snapshot' in technology time. So the Gen-1 Prius bought in 2005 worked for us when the Gen-2 Prius were in such short supply that dealers were jacking up the prices.

So I can appreciate the irony that the plug-in we bought in May achieves paper parity with a hybrid getting 120 MPG ... the very MPG I was looking for when test driving a Gen-4 Prius. In reality there were 'hidden' expenses but nothing beyond what I could handle and tend to not get too excited by these surprises.

Serious, February 2016 to November 2016 is a narrow window in time and I was waiting on the Gen-4, Level 2 ECO with TSS-P. Had it been available in May, it would be our new ride today. Had any of the engineered options denied to the USA been available, it would our new ride today. Decisions have consequences.

So I am happy for those with Gen-4 Prius because they have the best hybrid on the market. I am also happy with our plug-in because it is our best alternative. But plug-ins are not for everyone and hybrids don't solve all problems. The RAV-4 is a nice ride that meets other requirements than just low operating costs.

It is nice to be living in a time of choices.

Bob Wilson

 

I certainly get it that many folks can't access a convenient plug for charging but in your case simply adjusting the garage door stop would keep it from putting too much weight/stress on the cord. Lots of folks do this and attach a holder to the exterior wall to place the j1772 handle when not in use. The connector is spec'd for outside use.

 

Congrats on the new Gen4!
Somehow I missed hearing that.

 

I don't know if it has been posted here, but in the Netherlands the "Prius Prime" has already a price tag.
It will cost 15% more than the basic 4Gen level: Toyota | Officiële website voor Nederland

 

yes, there are quite a few posts, and two prime pricing threads. the base prime will be similar to the loaded lift back,but it's not enough info, because of the way euro packages and options differ from u.s. we're hoping base prime will be about 30k here, and toyota has alluded to as much. no idea what amenities it will have, hopefully similar to base pip.

 

Even if this ( 15% higher overseas prices) translates to only a 10% increase (in price for) US models, it likely means w/out incentives, a 4-seat prime will definately be a tough sell. Now - if they up the all electric range an additional 10-15 miles, that would be an entirely different story - even with our present-day low gas prices. I hope it's not too late for them to be able to do that.
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what do you mean by a 10% increase over u.s. models? i don't think there has been any talk of upping the ev miles, they can barely fit the battery as it is. but keep in mind, they didn't design prime for you, there are plenty of people that 22-30 miles will work well for.

 

fixed it to read more clearly hopefully. And yes I know they didn't build it for me - still - if folks have a choice for purchasing more EV miles versus less - chances are their dollars will vote for more miles - ah la volt. GM has kept their price reasonable, yet uped the ev range by 18 miles (gm secured a very low production cost per kWh from their battery supplier) . Time will tell.
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I believe he was speculating that the Dutch prime at 15% over the Dutch liftback might correlate to a US Prime at 10% over the US liftback.

Yes, that's true, Toyota has not publicly mentioned increasing the range, but I think hill was speaking of his hopes that they could do that. I think hill is simply saying that many more people would consider the Prime with a 30-40 mile range than would consider it with only a 22 mile range.

I know for me personally, 22 miles isn't really enough for a 55 mile one-way commute, but it's close enough for me to consider. If they up the range to 30 or more, that would be a game changer for me, personally, and I would definitely buy one. I mentioned before that I think it would be a good idea for Toyota to offer us a choice: a fifth seat or additional EV miles.

 

i disagree. volt sells so-so, and if prime had 5 seats and a full hatch, i believe it could do at least as well, even at 22 miles, there are so many other benefits. two completely different cars.

 

i see the problem in the last few posts. telmo's 15% statement. we would all do better to go to the horse's mouth in the prime pricing threads.

and yes, you could say that if toyota increases to 100 miles ev, they will sell like hotcakes.
or if they price them at $10,000.
or if they have 0-60 in 5 seconds.
we can play this game all day long. i don't think a couple months delay is going to bring about any of the delusions.

 

I agree with you - especially this part

 

The real question to us all is this.........."How many modded Volts and Leafs does one see on any given day versus a modded Prius?"
I rest my case...........

 

That seems reasonable; however, the market doesn't concur.

Volt is not the "leap frog" solution it had been hoped to be. The second-generation is floundering like the first. The recent spike of 2,406 sales for July is likely due to model-year clearance pricing. If that could be sustained, it would meet the half mark for mainstream minimum (60K annual). That quantity is very important, since it positions the vehicle to be able to sustain profitable sales without tax-credit dependency. The clock is ticking.

Toyota is delivering a package with greater potential to reach that sustaining level in time. The smaller EV range doesn't stir much excitement from the enthusiast perspective, but it should be much easier for dealers to embrace... who play a pivotal roll it the sales process.

Also, keep in mind how consumers don't purchase the largest capacity available. We see that with phones, tablets, and computers. More memory is clearly beneficial, but not required. The same is true for Prius Prime.