Is smugness a bad thing?

I shall give up the argument because I still don't fully understand. HOWEVER, to walk up to someone and say that your car has no transmission is just being dramatic. You have a device that performs the same function: putting power to the the wheels from an engine. That is the function of a transmission. Or, I guess more accuratly in this case, a transaxle.

And you still can't say its more reliable because it simply hasn't been around as long. No emperical evidence.

 

Ok, I just came up with an example...
The traditional engine that is in, say a Camry, the rotary that is in an RX7-8, and a diesel. All of these are referred to as motors or engines, and all server the same purpose, however the do it in drastically different ways.
You can't say an RX7 doesn't have a motor.

That's all I mean.

And BTW - yes I've read that site and it is good.

 

OK, quick "Fact Check" needed in this thread.

The Hummer H2 is a Humm-Vee body design grafted onto the chassis of a Chevy Tahoe. It's a marketing gimmick. Its off-road performance bears no relationship to an actual Humm-Vee. People who want to go off-road in a Tahoe get it modified for the purpose. So H2 drivers are clueless posers, nothing more.

If you want something that can actually go off road, you should be looking at a Jeep or a Land Rover.

 

Would depend on definition of off road, yes??



Just kidding. I'm sure it goes off road as good as it needs to for most.

 

You should read this thread. After reading it, I don't think the Hummer H2 even does "on road" as good as it needs to. Plus if you watch the video, the H2 breaks pretty quickly during offroading.

 

I would say "off road" is variable. I have had my Ford Explorer "off road" i.e. no road crossing streams but not for very long. I have been on a few forest service or logging "roads" that very few cars or trucks could drive on. I remember a road that the only way to drive was with one wheel on the center "hump" and the other on the berm straddling the ruts the logging trucks made. Not a great road and in serious need of major grading. I see off road and a moveable target. Most SUV drivers never see these conditions or have them within reasonable driving distance from their day to day life.

 

Even though the PSD "transmits" power from the engine and the two motor/generators to the wheels, it does so in a manner so completely different that it is not justified to use the same name for it.

I agree that it's dramatic to tell someone the car has no transmission. (And I always add, no clutch either; and on that point you cannot argue!) But what's wrong with a bit of drama? It effectively introduces the subject of the HSD, which is the most technologically-advanced automotive drive-train in regular commercial production.

 

>>I see off road and a moveable target. Most SUV drivers never see these conditions or have them within reasonable driving distance from their day to day life.<<

Well, yeah. Seems most SUVs were bought because people didn't want Minivans or station wagons, my family included. Once winter is over, I'll put ours up for sale (even though it has probably been one of the best overall vehicles we've ever owned). Hopefully some of the "dad's wagon" stigma is being eliminated with the introduction of the new "crossovers" (wagons). They at least should have less roll over possibility.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel\";p=\"58114)</div>

I think part of it for me is that I'm backlashing against newfangledness. I mean, really, ICE? Call it a stinkin motor!

Honestly, I think a lot of people are put off by all the fancy talk. Its of obvious interest to anyone who takes the time to frequent a board, but likely not to the masses. I ususally stop at saying yes its electric and gas, yes it gets better gas mileage, yes it will get out of its own way, but no it won't win a race. And BTW, its pretty inexpensive and has almost no emissions.
That seems to be all most people care. I really think it will take awhile for people to accept, and getting technical will scare off the non geeks. I mean, I'm pretty car savvy, but I'm still put off a tad about how the car works.

Obviously, just my opinion.

 

For me the smugness is all in good humour. To my girlfriend I joke about all those cars with their engines turning while stopped at a traffic light, it's "sooooo last century". Not totally correct, since the first Prius as already available in 1997, but still...

Anyway, about the H2, even though I don't like that car at all, according to Top Gear, it's not that bad in off-road situations.

 

We say ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) to differentiate it from the 2 electric motors. To say Motor in a hybrid is a bit ambiguous. Engine, maybe, but ICE takes less typing.

A traditional transmission, automatic or manual, has its stress in the shifting (changing) of the gears. A manual transmission has a clutch which does wear out. An automatic transmission has all of its shifting mechanisms, most relying on precise hydraulic pressures to determine its state. The prius' PSD has none of that. No shifting, no valves, no hydraulic or mechanical movement of levers, nothing engaged or disengaged. Everything is fixed.

As for reliablility, this technology has been around since 1997, and been here in the US either 2000 or 2001. Many have clocked 200K+ miles. Don't think anyone has had a PSD problem, and haven't even heard of an MG problem.

MG=Motor/Generator.

 

Popsrcr: You're probably right about the fancy terminology when talking to the general public. It might make more sense to say "engine" rather than ICE. But on a discussion board which draws people interested in this particular car, it is helpful to have precise terminology.

 

Dan -
1997? That means nothing. 1887 sure. I mean seriously, you can't compare. I'm quite sure its fine, but I do trust it less than a regular transmission. I mean, if something DID go wrong, sounds like there is no "wear" item (like a clutch disc/pressure plate) to fix. Replace the whole shebang.

Daniel - I'll give you that as well. Tho, ice will never come out of my mouth. Ice goes in my bourbon.

Old fart signing off.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(popsrcr\";p=\"58126)</div>

But it doesn't stink, it is very clean! ;-)

 

Indeed!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(popsrcr\";p=\"58226)</div>

You must be drinking that cheep stuff. I take mine neet with a bit of water added to bring out the flavors but pefer Scotch over Bourbon.
I have to agree that ICE and MG1 & MG2 are usefull around here to be exact. In the outside world I do say engine and motor 1 or 2. I confess that I like the drama of saying the car does not have a transmission and it is mostly true, the PSD is not really a transmission. It also helps introduce folks to the differences in a car with HSD or the Ford Escape for that matter!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(popsrcr\";p=\"58226)</div>

Come on now! You trust the PSD less because it has nothing to wear out??? That just does not make sense. Nothing to wear out, many fewer moving parts, no valves, no hydraulics, no release bearing = superb reliability.

Actually, the weak link in this car appears to be the computer, not any of the mechanical components.

Occam's razor: Simpler is better. The PSD is much better than a transmission. And "engine" is better than "ICE". A lot of the terminology we use on this board is necessary for clarity, but Popsrcr is right on this one: "ICE" is unnecessary obfuscation, since "engine" is unambiguous. "Motor" is ambiguous, since many people use "motor" for their engine, so I use "motor-generator" or "MG1" and "MG2".

 

Oh my god, and you guys wonder why the rest of the world hates you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SLH350 @ Nov 15 2006, 09:34 PM) [snapback]349906[/snapback]</div>

QTF! :lol:

 

Smugness is a negative in that its ultimately defeating to what you're trying to accomplish. I've gotten into this on here before and I don't have the energy to do it again, but the "holier than thou" attitude of environmentalists and liberals in general is off-putting and it hurts your overall ability to change public perception and attitudes towards your favor.

Smugness doesn't impress anybody or make anybody want to follow in your example. Take the yahoo that has that dumb thing in his signature about everybody who types a certain way, or has avatars he doesn't like is on his ignore list because he's too good to be bothered by what they're saying. You think that impresses anybody? No, it makes him look like an a-hole.