Is Prius a 10 year automobile?

I thought the re-involt battery was $1675 + shipping. How did it jump to $2600, unless that includes the $700 refundable charge ?

If you are going to drag the Prius up to Albuquerque, I suggest driving another 60 miles up the road to Seilerts in Santa Fe. He will replace defective modules and balance the pack. PM him for a price quote. I'll guess much, much less than $3000.

 

Maybe in California, not in Maine.

 

Obviously either miles or time can age a traction battery, but I think the vast majority of actual failures will be time. First off, few people rack up huge miles on their cars; and those that do tend to be highway drivers where the battery use is gentle. Taxis may be the exception.

I don't have data to support my impression that a clear uptick in G1 battery failures occurs after 7 years or so, as often in cars with modest mileage as not. I'm hoping that improvements in G2 and G3 push that threshold out to 10 years and beyond. I think it fair to say that even G1 Prius drivers are a lot better off overall with their battery failure rates and repair costs, compared to transmission failure rates and repair costs in conventional cars. The G2 and G3 just push the Prius further into best value territory.

 

Yep, 10 years seems about right. Unless you have an emotional attachment to your gen I, it does not sound worth it.

true, but things have improved since the gen I. It is cool to have a classic, but is that gen I much better than say a $10K versa (friend, single mom, just bought one when her truck needed a repair).

We still need the reviews, but the there should be a number of things that are much nicer in the prius c than the existing car.

lol. After a number of years maintenance costs start to over ride. In the rust belt, damage from weather take its toll, not so much in california or where I live.

 

Huh? Like better than a 4 cyl Camry?

 

hlunde, what is the accumulated repair frequency over 10 years and repair cost of a transmission for a 4 cyl Camry ? I have tried in the past to estimate these numbers for non-hybrid cars as a group, and I usually find 5 - 10% and 4 - 6 thousand dollars. This works out to an averaged cost per car of $5000*.075 = $375.

My WAG for the G1 Prius is about $1500 (for a repair, not a new replacement) and 2% of out of warranty cars thus far. So similarly, the traction battery averaged cost is 1500*.02 = $30.

 

So why is this thread in a Gen III forum?

Tom

 

Maybe it's here because the OP was sort of thinking to get a 3rd gen?

I know Prius is not a '10 year automobile', but with the fairly expensive traction battery (especially for those who only want OEM replacement), it's virtually guaranteed to need a replacement out of warranty in 10 years give or take a couple (-) or few (+).

I hear a common retort that 'automatic transmissions are common replacement items and cost thousands'. Really? Do they fail that commonly in Toyotas? Consumer Reports doesn't think so.


sister's '92 Camry, 240k miles, original tranny
other sister's '01 Camry, 160k miles, orig. trans
'92 Mazda626, 130k mi, orig trans
'92 Accord, 160k mi, orig trans (was sold off in '03)

The OP also stated dealer offered $500 on his 10 yr old car, bad battery, 130k mi. Seems low.

But, as said before, should be easy to save $3k+ in gas costs over 10 yrs (CA warranty) compared to similar car, Matrix.

One more thing, Toyota's warranty on new traction battery is also 1 year.

I guess a point is for some, it can be tough to justify a hybrid financially. Got to want it for what it is and to save gas. Nothing wrong with that.

 

To be credible, you of course have to cite the sources of your statistics. It's interesting to me that you suggest that the Aisin AW components in a Prius are more reliable than those in a Camry.

 

Time will deteriorate a battery as well. Just look at the 12v batteries on our cars and conventional cars. It's the same concept.

Also, a Gen I Prius was for early adopters. There was a huge risk of issues with that car and obviously, as time went on, this proved to be the case with the transmission, steering rack and battery failures. If you keep one of these for the long haul you must be willing to budget for these expenses or you need to get rid of it or it will only set you up for more disappointment.

 

I wouldn't be sure that Toyota is selling Gen1 replacement HV batteries with Gen2 or Gen3 modules. At least we know that ReInVolt is using the better (although used, but rebalanced) modules.

JeffD

 

CR


Note that each repair rate is for 12 months at a time. You have to sum up the 10 years of repair rates to know the total repair rate for a 10 year old car. In the case of major transmission work, an average 10 year old car will have a major transmission repair (3+3+2+2+1+1+1) in 13% of the that group. Since Toyotas tend to have about 1/3 to 1/2 the repair rate of average, a ballpark number is 13/3 - 13/2 = 3.25% - 6.5% of 10 year old Toyotas have had major transmission repairs.

To recap: a traction battery failure in a Prius costs 1/2 a major transmission repair in a conventional toyota, and occurs at 1/4rth to 1/3rd the frequency. I leave the multiplication in your capable hands.

Now your turn to submit credible data or references if you wish to dispute the above.

 

I replaced my traction battery, on my 2002, with newer cells from an 07 about 6 months ago. I sold the left over cells. Total cost for me after selling left over cells for really cheap on craigslist was about $700. Car has been working fine since then. Also it only took my wife and I about 4 and a half hours to swap the 07 cells into the 02 battery casing. The newer cells are a tight fit but do work. Just testing or replacing a few of the bad cells is a bad idea. It will make the car go again but it won't be long until another of the old cells fail. Also if you just replace a few of the bad cells you have to buy used cells from a gen 1 to do it as you can't mix gen 1 and gen 2 cells. I highly recommend against buying a "new" battery from toyota for a gen 1. Because it may not have been used yet but it is old stock and has been sitting on the shelf for about 10 years now. Some others in the gen forum have replaced their batteries with "new" toyota gen 1 batteries and had failures about a year later. Of course mileage makes a difference due to cycling, but age makes the biggest difference. Age and cycling also effect the old gen 1 cells more due to their different construction. The newer gen 2 cells have better heat dissapation which helps with cycling wear. I live in a salt area and so far the car has handled the salt just fine. $500 trade in is a joke, but probably just a token because the dealer isn't going to fix that car. Because they can't do a non toyota authorized swap like swapping cells from newer used gen 2 packs into gen 1 packs. It will probably just get auctioned off. Otherwise try selling it on craigslist for $1000 and let people know it has a bad battery. It should sell quickly.

 

If you assume the individual Aisen transmission components in Camry and Prius transmissions have equal reliability, the Prius transmission would be a few times more reliable than the Camry transmission because the Prius transmission has fraction as many components as a Camry transmission.

The Prius has one planetary gear set and no clutches or other parts related to mechanically or hydraulically shifting the transmission, the Camry transmission has probably three planetary gear sets, a few clutch packs and a lot of shifting related bits.

The Prius transmission has no sacrificial wear components like clutch packs.

 

Sage Brush:

I still question some of your assumptions but I will present data to support your conclusion, so please bear with me.

First, to me the Prius "transmission" consists of the transaxle, the battery and the controller for the motors within the transaxle, so you have to look at the aggregate failure rates to make a comparison with a "conventional transmission".

Second, the assumption that the overall reliability rate for Toyotas in comparison to "all vehicles" applies to the transmission per se is speculative.

But, in your complexity discussion you really ought to recognize that the Prius' lack of a conventional starter and a conventional alternator reduce its overall repair-cost risks.

Finally, since you cite CR (Consumer Reports) I reviewed their data and found that 4 cyl. Camry is rated as "Better than average" while Prius is rated "Much better than average" for the period of 2002 to present. Interestingly, the Camry's reliability has diminished slightly with the last few model years.

 

$500 trade in is a rip. I bet there's a shop in Ft. Davis that can put a battery in with some coaching. You don't have to give your car away and it can be fixed for much less than you have been told. (Unless you really want a new Prius V, in which case, hold out for $1500 on the trade.)

Worst case, you could ship the car from El Paso to Denver for $1000 round trip and have it on the road for $2500- $3000 total with a one year warranty.

BTW: You live in a beautiful part of the world. Passed through there many times.

Eric
Adopt A Part

 

190,000 DEAD
About $3,000 in repairs beyond oil changes and maintenance. (And I never was able to afford the $800 to fix the AC control mechanism).

Not to impressed with Toyota reliability nor lifespan. Realized, that all my gas savings with the Prius were pretty much eradicated by it's repairs and shorten lifespans.

 

Your post sounds like sour grapes to me. 190,000 miles and your complaining about $3000 worth of repairs beyond maintenance (and much of that was probably performed by the dealer). I challenge anyone to find another car to give you 190,000 miles without needing similiar repairs. Instead of whining and complaining, I suggest you get out there and get your car fixed or sell it. 190,000 miles puts most cars in the junkyard... but, the Prius (yes even the gen I Prius) is still worth a lot. A "broken" Gen I consistently sells for $3000 on Ebay (I see it all the time).

This forum is for helping people. I see your other posts and I see where Patrick and Seilerts both tried to help you but, it seems you don't want their help. I also see where you rant against Toyota. This is not the place for that. This is not a "Toyota" website. This is a community of owners that are trying to help others and share knowledge. Please respect that.

 

There is a curious irony in American society, in which some people avoid bleeding edge tech because of the financial risk, and others that decide to be on the bleeding edge, but expect the bleeding to be someone else. :shrug:

I do like OP's suggestion that Toyota offer a few thousand dollars to G1 purchasers off the price of a new hybrid. It seems like a smart marketing move. I just would not expect/demand the overture.

 

In answer to "Is Prius a 10 year automobile?", I have a friend who owns a 2002 Gen1. Exactly 10 years old, and working fine.

I told him to change the transmission oil regardless of mileage and/or dealer recommendation. Other than that, just do normal maintenance and fix what breaks.