Is it 'ok' to be a republican, NRA member, Christian who eats LOTS of meat and own a Prius?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ 2007 May 12 9:59 PM) [snapback]440787[/snapback]</div>

And the rapist is just an innocent bystander? This sounds llike the same line of reasoning used in some societies to justify forcing women to wear heavy black clothing from head to toe, revealing no skin or even body contours. Funny, I thought we were at war with this kind of ideology.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roryjr @ May, 08:14 PM) [snapback]440845[/snapback]</div>

You're right. How could I miss the flashing neon "HEY I'M A CRIMINAL" sign the guy was holding as I walked past him?

Or else maybe I just thought he was another student.

And the previous post from the op was way out of line.

 

By extension of the same logic, I suppose that every time one of our troops is killed in Iraq, it's his or her fault for being "oblivious to (his/her) surroundings"?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ May 13 2007, 10:22 AM) [snapback]441034[/snapback]</div>

Given recent events, it might actually be an apt comparison. But that was not the point. The point is, soldiers are often killed in battle because they aren't totally cognizant of their surroundings. In the confusion of battle, they miss cues to what is happening around them. Or someone walking down a city street might be distracted and not notice the person who poses a threat to them until it is too late.
When I was in college, I was mugged when I was in a part of town that I admittedly should have known better than to be in. So you would say that it was my own stupid fault for getting mugged, while letting the muggers go blameless? Hey, are you sure that you aren't the liberal here? :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ May, 07:12 AM) [snapback]441029[/snapback]</div>

No

No

No but that would not have been odd. You think that all students carry a book bag or books at all times? Students live there.

I don't know. I wasn't staring him down. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR TROUBLE!!! From what I could tell there was nothing out of the ordinary.

Yes

You admitted yourself you were being an donkey. So what I said was based on the truth, and my opinion was formed from there, which even you can see the logic behind.

Where did I call for anyone else to protect me?????? I didn't.

So according to you, I should carry a gun so that any time I walk by someone who either:

a ) is black
b ) doesn't carry a book bag
c ) looks at me

I can get it out in preparation for being pounced on.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

You're working awfully hard to make sure I'm the one responsible for this crime. Kind of bizarre.

 

Such a constructive thread....

 

Wow... I think the fine line between preparedness and paranoia was passed miles ago. Who (consciously) profiles everyone they see on the street? Statistically, this would be a complete waste of time, as the odds of one getting mugged are really pretty slim. Sure, be alert, but if I ever reach a point in my life where I need a gun on me at every waking (and presumably sleeping) moment, life truly sucks. Jeebus, this isn't the old west! I think a lot of folks truly fantasize about living in an era like the old west, but this is only because it has been romanticized in so many films and novels. We, the US, have come a long ways since then, and I for one am glad.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ May 13 2007, 06:12 AM) [snapback]441029[/snapback]</div>

I hate to be the grammar police, but I think you meant to type "sordid" (I have a few language-related pet peeves, and this is one of them ... also phrases like "nip it in the butt" and "take it for granite".)

Without addressing each of your points individually, there is an unfortunate polarization of what should be dual points of personal responsibility in this thread, and it is falling into the predictable pattern of non-communication that is so prevalent in our society today.

In many crimes, the victim can point to some "mistake" they made to expose themselves to danger. The fact that they are victimized in no way gives a pass to the aggressor. But it is true that you can increase or decrease your odds of being victimized by your own behavior. There is no moral issue here; it is your choice to play the odds one way or the other. You can engage in risky behavior if you want, and we may call you a fool, but you won't go to jail.

That's a separate issue from the relative guilt of the aggressor. Conservatives tend toward "determinate sentencing", where the crime of forcible rape would carry the same sentence for every perpetrator, regardless of their past, "sordid childhood" or if their boss was mean to them that day. And regardless of whether or not the victim was dressed provocatively.

Liberals tend toward wanting to understand the root cause of crime to socially engineer the reason for it out of existence, and are more willing to look at extenuating circumstances in each individual case. So when you say to a liberal that a woman who dresses provocatively is a "damn fool" for inviting an attack, they go ballistic because they think you are making an excuse for the forcible rapist. In their world-view, if you say the victim is inviting the violent rape, you have to then compensate the perpetrator for the degree of the invitation, so they have to say what are, to me, idiotic statements like "rape is a crime of violence, not sex", etc. Some rapists are simply sadists, but more are sexual sadists, and do indeed perform a sex act with the victim.

I suspect your view of the punishment rapists should receive for forcible rape is much harsher than the average liberal. Yeah, me too ... and I mean every rapist, regardless of "provocation" or extenuating circumstances in the rapist's personal life. But I will still warn my daughters and my wife about the predatory nature of some men, and how crimes "of opportunity" are much less common if you don't put yourself in the position of being available for them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ May 13 2007, 02:42 PM) [snapback]441136[/snapback]</div>

I like "nip it in the butt". :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ May 13 2007, 06:00 PM) [snapback]441299[/snapback]</div>

Hey man, remember: 'Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you.'

 

I've done really dumb things (wrong place/wrong time) and survived. Sometimes you just have to be grateful that God looks after fools.

As for smart things, I'm not sure I can think of any....

But I will say this: One evening (not late) I was pursued by someone who could not have had good intentions, and he had friends to back him up. (This was not just somebody walking down the street behind me -- he had tried to corner me twice.) I will always be grateful I happened to have a .22 Berretta automatic in my purse. As he closed the distance on me, I walked faster, trying to get to a safe place. When it was clear I wasn't going to make it, I pulled the .22 out of my purse without turning around. I held it out to my side so my pursuer could see it, and pulled the top thingy back to load the bullet in the chamber, which made a clicking sound. I never pointed it at him, I didn't turn around, I never fired it, and he and his friends fled.

I carried a gun, I didn't shoot it, I didn't even point it at anyone, and it saved me.

You can argue that I could have been overwhelmed, etc. And maybe I could have been, but that day I wouldn't let them get that close. I was prepared to use it. I'm glad I didn't have to.

(And no, I don't still carry it. All the fuzz and stuff in my purse kept making its firing mechanism jam. It was the kind where the barrel would flip up, so I could be sure that there were no bullets in the chamber. Since it saved me I don't know why I don't carry something. Maybe that's what the secret drawer is for....)

The funny thing was that my father bought me that gun, but was very concerned because it is too small to stop someone if they are high or crazy. He also gave me his Smith & Wesson .357 magnum with the comment, "This will pretty well ventilate anything you point it at."

That thing is too big and dangerous to carry around. I hope I don't need to ventilate anything anytime soon!

 

With weapons comes responsibility....

There are good stories and there are bad stories. The above was a good one. There are two bad ones..

I'm sure we could trade back and forth all day long.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ May 13 2007, 04:49 PM) [snapback]441317[/snapback]</div>

The statistics are that for every death due to firearms, there are many, many more instances where gun owners say they used a weapon to avert a crime. The estimates of gun deaths ranges from 10 - 20,000 per year, with up to 2.5 million instances of defensive use of guns in that same year.

Even if you discount the defensive use of guns by a factor of ten, the statistics are so lopsided that the only rational and logical conclusion is that guns are a net benefit to our society.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ May 13 2007, 05:56 PM) [snapback]441321[/snapback]</div>

I have an inherent distrust of statistics, especially with huge anti-gun control lobbyists with lots of money to create "studies". I'm not saying you are not correct. I'm just saying I don't like statistics.

Also remember I am undecided on this issue, I do own a shotgun, I USED to be an avid hunter during my teen years and had a rack full of hunting rifles and shot guns. I also still have my old hunter safety card in my wallet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ May 13 2007, 05:10 PM) [snapback]441328[/snapback]</div>

A lot of the stats are questionable or, at least, don't mean what you think they mean. I did a post here about a Wall Street Journal column by their "The Numbers Guy" who challenged 4 different stats from the issue (2 each for pro and con). The link is: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=32085&st=40#

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ May 13 2007, 08:50 PM) [snapback]441422[/snapback]</div>

I'll check it out. I respect your opinion and ability to look at both sides of a debate.

My main point is still centered on responsibility. Responsibility to know whether you should be and are mentally able to carry a firearm and if so then you secure it in such a way that others cannot gain access to it.

 

As far as the stats, remember "Figures don't lie, but liers figure".