Is GM completely off its rocker?

How are the Li batteries doing in toyota's Vitz? the start-stop mild hybrid from Japan-only.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/02/redesign_of_toy.html

Don't even count toyota out of the game. Sheesh, that's a joke as much as GM's gas-friendly to gas-free hype.

'Course, many a American will bite, hook line and s(t)inker.

After half a million Volts are sold, then come talk to me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Nov 5 2007, 08:26 PM) [snapback]535281[/snapback]</div>

Come on, Godiva, don't be so naive! Not only can you advertise non-existent products, but you can make false claims about products. But as I pointed out above, the Volt commercials are not stupid at all. It's all about developing a positive public image. The ad says "We are working to make the world a better place." It does so by lying, but lying is legal and effective. GM gets something of great value for its advertising money: It makes Americans feel that GM is a good company, and that translates into sales of pickup trucks and SUVs, because most people base buying decisions on how they feel about a company, not on reason or research.

 

What you guys are missing is that the Volt (and it's E-Flex system) is also the planned platform for GM's hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. They've been saying that for months and have been reiterating it a lot lately.

So if you guys need a negative spin in order to accept that GM might just beat Toyota to the punch, you can hang your hat on "GM is making the Volt because they are in bed with Big Oil in an attempt to put one over on the American public and make them dependent on a inefficient fuel supply that can be dominated by Big Oil".

The "in bed with Big Oil" position has been a popular one around here lately, so it should be an easy transition. This way you can still bash GM even after the E-Flex based hybrids arrive on the showroom floor. It's certainly a position that will take you farther, because you won't have to start back peddling a year or so from now.

 

Here is an Edmunds REVIEW of the volt. They are now giving glowing reviews to non existent cars.



http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Featu...ktid=ga27906637

 

I know that the price that everyone has been referring to is around 30k. The thing about the Volt that really disappoints me is the fact that it only gets 40 miles on a charge.

I'm not sure about the rest of you but here is a link that you ALL should check out. It's a truck that gets 110 miles on a charge and is currently only available in Southern California and to fleets only.

I'd like to read everyone's thoughts on it after you've all read up on it.

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

 

I assume this is the commercial in question?

Chevy Volt commercial

Gotta love YouTube. B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Nov 6 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]535483[/snapback]</div>

Ha! If we weren't talking about vaporware before, we sure are now! :lol: Sure, call me a fuel-cell denier or skeptic or whatever, but that just ain't happening in the next ten years, and maybe forever. Iceland might set up a working system because of their free geothermal energy, few fossil fuels and their commitment, but it won't happen on a workable scale anywhere else. They'll suddenly realize that this electric drive system would be so much more efficient if they bypassed the fuel cell stack and pressurized hydrogen tank with some batteries and maybe an ultracap.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 5 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]535171[/snapback]</div>

Just for clarity, there were three versions of the EV1. The initial one could barely do 60 miles because of defective batteries. These were replaced with Panasonic batteries, and could do 100 miles on lead acid. Two years later, they put NiMH in the same car, and 150 miles was easily possible.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Nov 6 2007, 08:08 AM) [snapback]535483[/snapback]</div>

Not sure I understand the point. GM has now shown us THREE "planned platforms" for their H2 FCV. They've had prototypes of each, and have dragged them all over the country to show to auto journalists.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcholoperuano @ Nov 6 2007, 11:12 AM) [snapback]535600[/snapback]</div>

What thoughts would you like? This truck isn't yet available to ANYBODY. I've seen it, touched it and driven in it. It is a fine EV. It just isn't in production, and I think their business plan sucks. They are relying on credit monies that don't yet exist.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Nov 6 2007, 02:32 AM) [snapback]535385[/snapback]</div>

Deep love for GM like deep love for a toothache.
That's it, I'm flaming now.... GM sucks!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcholoperuano @ Nov 6 2007, 10:12 AM) [snapback]535600[/snapback]</div>

How much will it cost, and how will the warranties and all work? I'm hoping this isn't DeLorean all over again.

 

Ha, despite what I said about GM above, I won't lie.

http://www.chevrolet.com/fuelcell/checkzipcode/

I just went here, and they said I qualify, but that there's a long waiting list (surprise, surprise).
I admit, I don't care who the manufacturer is - I'll test drive anyone's fuel cell vehicle.

Paul

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Nov 6 2007, 07:08 AM) [snapback]535483[/snapback]</div>

GM is not "in bed with" big oil. GM is big oil: GM, like the other big U.S. auto makers, owns a considerable chunk of oil, as oil owns a considerable chunk of them, and they have interlocking boards of directors.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kablooie @ Nov 6 2007, 08:45 AM) [snapback]535539[/snapback]</div>

And they write their review in the present tense, even though there is not even a fully-working prototype to test. All those mileage and cost figures and the performance numbers come from GM announcements, and are "planned" numbers, subject to change. But rather than "will" or "is expected to" that say "does."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcholoperuano @ Nov 6 2007, 10:12 AM) [snapback]535600[/snapback]</div>

As above, the Volt does not get 40 miles on a charge. It does not get one inch on a charge, because it does not exist. The current line from GM is that it will get 40 miles on a charge. However, that would be fine because all the trips I take in my Xebra I could take in a 40-mile PHEV on electric alone. But I'd rather have 60 miles on a charge.

As Darell mentioned above, the Phoenix SUT is not yet available to anybody. Will it be some day? Who knows. There has been talk of the government giving an enormous tax credit to an EV capable of fully charging in ten minutes. (Never mind that it would require a $100,000 charger to do that, as well as grid wiring to the location capable of delivering the amperage.) The Phoenix will be prohibitively expensive if that tax credit is not enacted, and it has not yet been enacted. And because of that, if the tax credit is not enacted, the SUT may never be built.

However, the AC Propulsion eBox is available if you have $70,000 and by all accounts it is a great vehicle, if you can stomach the appearance. I have an intense aversion to the boxy body style, which (like an SUV) blocks other drivers' view of the road.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 7 2007, 10:00 AM) [snapback]536121[/snapback]</div>

Well as per the article under news on their site, they have orders in from a cab company and PG&E. I've sent them an email asking when it may be available to the public since their site says next year.

Even if it is only available to fleet purchasing, it's still going to (if it hasn't already) be on the streets. That's a shoe-in if you ask me.



-------------------
4% over dealer cost
$2500 under sticker price
-------------------

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jtmhog @ Nov 5 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]534908[/snapback]</div>

If Bush turned down the auto companies request for $500 million to research battery technology,maybe the ad is part of a lobbying effort.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkhoury @ Nov 6 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]535666[/snapback]</div>

Huh. Only available in NYC and SoCal. Quick, what other GM vehicle also had this marketing strategy?

And why is GM spending so much on advertising this turkey when they so obviously WANT it to fail?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hschuck @ Nov 5 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]535000[/snapback]</div>

I didn't ... was it computer generated?
If it was shown to be on the road ... that answers the question

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Nov 9 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]537332[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it appeared to be computer generated, It was a stationary scene in a green field setting. I don't recall seeing a road at all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcholoperuano @ Nov 7 2007, 09:50 PM) [snapback]536597[/snapback]</div>

Did you think to ask them in your email what it will cost you if the tax credit is not enacted? Somewhere I saw the number $200,000 thrown around. An eBox from ACP will "only" set you back $70,000 though it will not have the ten-minute charging capability. But since a ten-minute charger will probably set you back another $100,000 I'd say the eBox looks like the winner here.

I'm betting on the Tesla Roadster to be first to market (after the very low-volume eBox) even taking into account the 18-month waiting list at present.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Nov 6 2007, 05:06 AM) [snapback]535381[/snapback]</div>

Hmm. where did you get this information from?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Nov 5 2007, 11:26 PM) [snapback]535281[/snapback]</div>

I'd GM was sly. Like a fox.

Marketing BS works in this country. How do you think the republicans got elected for 8 years? No shortage of idiots.